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https://ddnet.org/testmaps/?map=The_Life

As a moderate player I can't even figure out the first part, some aspects of it that seem intended are seem to be impossible, leaving it unpassable. Even if it were passable it would be a point of extreme congestion if people were trying to play this t0.

actually, same goes for 2nd part too, and third part. This map doesn't seem possible to me, let alone moderate.

EDIT: ok so it's a 3p map hence why things seemed impossible. the mapping is very confusing though, I'm still not a huge fan of it

entire map can be skipped t0 with multihammer throw

this map needs a 3p sign somewhere

I also find the color choices very unappealing, and the indicator designs will need to be changed to not spam the symbols so much.

thank you guys for sharing your thoughts, I appreciate it. I will try to make a minor updates with things which needs to be fixed.

However, it is NOT a 3 players map. It is puzzle type map, but probably I misjudged the difficulty.

I didnt think it is possible, are you sure that finish is reachable with that throw ?

wdym by this? is it supposed to be doable with just 2 players? or do you mean it is supposed to be done with many tees? when I said it is 3p map I mean that's the minimum to beat the map, and in its current state that is absolutely true

I meant that 2 payers are enough to finish the map

you need to get several hammers from different people in a very short period of time it's not easy but it's possible teamstacking makes it way easier, but you still need everyone to time their hammers correctly which is still pretty difficult

still, if it's possible and gives a 'free' 1 second time, someone will try and do it

I see, thank you for an explanation

I will make a recording of me doing the parts so you could see the way they work if you havent figured it yourself

I still don't believe this map is possible 2p unless by 'possible' you mean Insane category difficult. I see no way to do any of the first 3 parts 2p

here is the demo of me playing the map (sorry, it took many attemps on some parts. I have not played the game for a couple of months.)

ok that's pretty cool but I don't think that solving those first couple parts 2p is moderate difficulty IMO (though I could be mistaken) - or at least, i think many moderate players would just give up

and I think t0 would probably be plagued with problems

Very cool map! Some parts are a bit finicky/precise for moderate imo shown in the images, then from tp8 onward it felt like it got a lot easier to solve and seemed more like general moderate parts instead of a puzzle imo.

Overall I really enjoyed solving it though, lots of the parts were very unique and unintuitive making me use my brain a bit 😄

this part was also a bit hard for moderate tbh but idk the rating is prob fine if moderate 5*

looking at this map some more my thoughts are as follows: • teams probably will need to be forced, start will be too crowded and it will be easy to do skips in the map in t0 • i think teams of 3 could be moderate 4-5 rating but forced 2p is low brutal territory IMO, even if it has to be like brutal 0 or something lol. just like there aren't really hammer hit maps in novice so there exists mod 0 maps, there aren't really crazy puzzle maps that go this hard in moderate like there are in brutal (to my knowledge) so brutal 0 might actually be fitting if 2p is forced • teams of 3 or 4 mean first/second parts can just be skipped in teamrank speedruns respectively though so it may have to be forced 2p

that said idk, my record with mod 5* drag maps isn't amazing right now but that's my thoughts on the rating

after playing through a second time, this is the only part that felt finicky/annoying at all to do, but the other parts(and this one) could still be annoying for some to solve since they may attempt to do them the correct way, but don't get a good enough hook and then move on to other ideas. If you intend for it to be moderate, maybe make some of these slightly easier somehow, or if you want it to be low brutal, then I'd suggest making the ending (tp8 onward) harder as well as adding more parts, it feels kinda in the middle of those as ds273 said. Its hard to say though, I just think most moderate players may have trouble figuring out some parts(as you saw above fjp and ds273 assumed this was a 3p map), but its definitely too easy for brutal in its current state.

cool map

if its the right way of doing it, it sucks 😄

would force it 2p, already said above

and shirk the map or fill the unused space 😄

close it here with ht and tele if u want that fall

set the spawn down

^

$waiting

what about empty space

?

you can aslo complete by not going up

said it

ik both ways suck

Thanks guys! I am gona update the map with the changes you requested soon.

I have read every comment in the thread and made changes accordingly. Thank you all guys!

"entire map can be skipped" - added obstacles so throw is no longer an option "color choices very unappealing" - made colors warmer. I am shitty graphic designer, sorry. "I can't even figure out the first part" - difficulty is the matter of your choice. You either team up with a two more players and make through or go as 2 players and think hard to find a way - solve the puzzle.

"this part was also a bit hard" - made it much easier.

"it sucks" - not sure what was wrong, hopefully I fixed it. Please check updated version out. "fill the unused space" - add a few "complication" for fly part. The rest space was intentionally added. I see no harm in those small spacious areas. "set the spawn down" - easy one, done. "shortcut video" - nice find mate! I removed that cut.

And the one that was mentioned by most of you guys: "t0 would probably be plagued with problems", "would force it 2p" - I wish to let players a freedom of choice - leave an ability to play in a new team as well as in a open for all team zero. I would not hard force teams.

Cps added

maybe like this , because you can fail in your version

maybe somethink like this ? to avoid empty space . its only my suggestion , i am not tester. And add part where i wrote part .

Normally it's no problem to have areas with nothing in it, but the map has 6 parts, it's already rly short and u want to keep useless space?

It's clearly a team map

Yes, I added it intentionally. Tunnel made of 10 blocks wont make harm.

10 blocks ok

but its long like a part

Man there is nothing wrong about it. It should be mapper decision whether to keep those things unless they corrupt gameplay

im sure u can fill it with more cool parts

Probably yes, but the map is completed and that "useless space" is a part of its design.

Sad, could be a very cool map

BTW I saw all the old massages

I put it on waiting for now

$waiting

just change testers knows better , it's not much work at all .... my first map i changed for days because it wasn't good enough and had some big issues .

aint their first map https://ddnet.org/mappers/BannZay/

What is the reason for?

I appreciate testers opinion and I implemented most of their suggestions as I want my map to be good. But it is still my map and you can not match everyone taste with a single map so I have to refuse to some of those.

i like your maps and this map, look if you move the parts a bit you have room for another cool part

or maybe 2

i would find it cool if you add more parts. besides that the map is just not suitable for t0, force it 2p

we are going circles... Find my answers in previous messages

let me know if map violates the rules and I HAVE TO change the map

yes, you can fail if you play completely reckless. It is not the only way you can fail on the map

this is the right way of placing toteles/ctoteles

since when ?

ok i see you don't want me to test this map

xd

he don't want map to be released

decline it

no, I dont want you guys to force me to do something without a fair reason

i dont want to explain every single thing, i just stop testing this

thats why testers are for make map better then it is right now !

Weird hill to die on XD

Man I asked you to explain just one thing and you quit. Your right, but I am not a new player here so I know something of how map should look like.

ok 👍

just change it , testers knows better . I need to change almost all map to make releasable . So i did and there was a lot of work !

I was a tester for a while. And I did test my map with ppl before appying for test. And also I changed a lot not because it was critical but just to improve it

https://ddnet.org/testlogs/show/Essential 11/05/2020 - 02/02/2021

said it many times, and gona say it again. I dont want to change because I beilieve that a change will do more harm than good rather than being lazy/not having time etc.

you are just not up to date, just to think that a map is suitable for t0. the first 2 parts are in t0 chaos and cheatable anyway so that no one has to make the parts.

its a clearly 2p moderate map 4-5*~

would "max_team_size 2" do the work ? If you cares about ranks, there is distinguish between team and non team ranks. So speedrunners would be able to compete in team category while others might do parts in group of more than 2 players

And no, I dont really think it is suitable for full server t0. I just want to let player decide whether he wants to join team.

yes I had already said that a few times

this is not even nice with 10 player

just force it lol

max team size 2

it's important for t0 so players don't stack each other

at least 2 to every tele

he know how it should look like

Decline map, Gameplay can't be intentionally misleading or confusing. Map was confusing XD

just gonna say what makes this map instantly bad for eyes - structure i mean no structure this map is flat af

In all honesty this map seems a bit rushed, feels like it could use alot more work XD Please make design better XD

I did my best mate. If its design bad enough for declining the whole map then I will take. Cant make it better.

just to let you know...

lol

it not so bad for eyes , because most of time you are in part and you don't see anything except part . the parts are pretty big so it's fine .

it still sucks

For some reason I thought that it was another troll comment. But for real, what is wrong with "flat" structure ?

After you finish any drag you go further through flat and boring huge corridor, it either not a filler or part that makes map better. In fact your map is almost alike with lumine, luminati or any other only drag map but they immediately get you to next part, you can add at least some fillers in this gaps between parts so it will not be that flat

Its wastefull time parts . Just make them smaller . 50 blocks off empty space is to much . 10 enough probably

team force still missing

$waiting

big unused space too

Just accept or discard, I am not a parrot. We discussed those things couple of times already.

test team was not great back in the days, but Id rather quit than be part of this shit show. Just waste of time really

i would find it a pity, i like the map. you don't even want to add teamforce, what else should i do... the way the map is, it is not releasable rn

entitiy bugs here too

Regarding team force we agreed to just add max team size which I did. Empty space is part of the map and is not going off, I repeat it very last time. Once you decided to release it I might add this team force thing. But I believe it should not be forced. No idea whats wrong with the screenshot.

i want to make it better b4 rls

never said something about max team size, its useless

as i already said u cant play this map in t0 xd

in the picture u can see entity bugs as i said

i have often said that i like the map and the existing parts, i just want to improve the map, why do you see everything as an attack on the map?

Because you force things you like really hard ignoring the fact that mapper not grees with you

I don't understand what the testing is about then, just write in the beginning that the map is perfect and you don't want to change anything so we can quick decline or ready

because you also do not want to hear/see what is wrong

I believe testing is about seeking critical bugs and enforce their fixes. Additional improves is not prohibited to be suggested, but should not be served as demand for release.

Unless map is too bad

I did update my map a couple of times. But I indeed hear what you say, just dont do blindly whatever anyone says

testing is about all that.. improving maps, finding bugs, finding skips etc.

Yes, but dont forget that there is not a thing as universal taste. Different people preffer different things.

Just as a prove of my point, puzzle maps is very niche type of maps. Majority of players likes just simple straightforward maps. But we have a couple of them released.

so you like it when your map is completely skippable, unplayable in t0 and has empty spaces as big as a part. I do not think we will agree then 😄

maybe you need some time to think about the map again

its not rly a puzzle map to me but whatever

tbh the empty spaces just dont look great compared to the rest of the map you could easily fit 1-3 parts inside dont even have to be big, just something

https://discord.com/channels/252358080522747904/1105590565267062894/1108767407029370910

Skipable means doable in easier/faster way than they are intended to be ? If so, the question is - "who is the one who defines that intention" ? Defenitely not testers. I clearly stated that it is intended to be like that, but you are as always - just does not care what I say just wants to fit in your imaginary borders of ideal basic another 9999s ddnet map.

sv_team 2

i mean the full map skip in the begin of testing

this is gona be last update, I wasted enormous amount of my time for this

cool, I fixed it as soon as it was reported

but it turned out that I should not have done that, cuse some testers ego is too big to respect mappers ideas

anyway man, I am sorry for being an ass hole. Thank you for your work as testers, I really mean it. But please no more waiting tag unless it is really important, just discard whole map. I dont have time for improving it anymore.

What is the point of the map if you do not have to play it

I have tried to improve the map, maybe someone else wants to release the map as it is

yeah, indeed you dont have to. By whatever reason you may "play" it as a a dragbag (as you can be in nearly any other map) so you wait until someone got you through the part

we all play games not because we forced to do it, man

the point is freedom, you can do whatever you want. You can play however you want. You can even compte in teasm ranks. I dont like all this stupid enforcements in ddnet community, it is not a game full of noobs anymore, time to grow up finally. Everyone knows how to join a team. But you obviously knows what is fun to everyone

I think u know my points

points?

like for finishing maps?

frankly, I have no idea. But it does not matter as long as every single player is in the same situation

you say "map is unplayable if you dont enforce teams". I say, I dont play team forced maps, just never. You can barely find any in my list of finished maps

but whatever, I made teams forced.

xddd

Pointed already the reasons out

That's not my problem, we just try to prepare the maps for the release, u can clearly see that it will end in big chaos and skipping all parts xd in t0 5 of 6 parts useless, but u know how to do it I guess

You can not do whatever u want

unless of course everything is perfect then

You can otherwise release the map on ddrock, there it plays no one but you also have to change nothing more.. U don't have to think about some things we have. There's different maps with cheats, bugs or even maps that are just annoying. All ddnet maps also there

"sv_team 2" is not a magic pill that solves issues with the team 0. Team zero is always full of mess, the lower skill of players are - the more mess

This map does not strictly fall into single difficulty. It depends on how you play. If you novice - go with a big group and "cheat" (however it was intended so you cant call it a cheating). If you are more skilled go and challenge yourself in a team that are limited to 2 so you know that it is not 3p map

I dont know if I expain myself so poorly so I cant make you understand the idea of map after I explained it couple times or you just dont listen or dont care. But everything was changed to having teams and etc so there is nothing left to discuss.

how do you know that people wont be joining teams? How do you know that they will be sitting in a mess and complaining instead ?

and if they chose to sit in mess then this is where their fun comes from

another intention of not forcing teams is to entertain person unless he found teammate so he is not forced to sit before start line searching for suitable teammate

you are like a brutal player who came to novice server map and complaining that the map is too easy for you. Ofcourse it is. But it does not mean that map bad or good if it just not suit you, there are another hundreds of players who might like it.

you are not forced to play in a team zero. There is nothing annoing in the map. I dont get your points, I am trying hard but I only hear "we know better what people like, we know better how this map gameplay should look like, go and do that and now do this. Oh and also - we dont explain specifically why you should do this or that. This is YOUR problem, you are the one who needs our approval so go and do or else no release!"

I lost all my passion making this map any better arguing with you. Now all you wanted is in the map, hope you are happy.

teini would be so happy to get a map like this released on ddrock he would insta release it xd

I have read through the wall of text and found that I have already explained all the points that you mention

Stop arguing then. Either fix or decline it.

Map is hardly a puzzle map. Uses the same "puzzle" technique throughout most of the parts.

This is not 2014. If testers say fix something its because there are standards now. If you believe this T0 hell of a map is fine as it is then find a different server or fix it.

Decline what?

Kobra 4

Do you intentionally do this ? I thought this thread used to discuss critical moments of the map but not solving egoistic testers puzzles

It's simple. Fix it. Or dont and archive the map. Unless some other tester has opinions on this matter.

so you think the tester can force whatever shit he wants?

without even explanation

https://tenor.com/view/i-think-you-should-leave-tim-robinson-oh-yeah-gif-22987814

cool bruh, hopefully there any adequate tester left

Without explanation? What other explanation do you need.

Coke explained himself

oh yeah, thank you for "this part is a waste of time" quality explanation

appriciate your work guys

where

Bro you repeated the same idea across every part and dont want to listen to the other feedback. Its not a perfect map as you might see in your mind. He gave countless explanations. You refused to fix most of them. What else must he do.

what have not I fixed?

Let me see how much open space there is quick.

open space?

check other maps that violates this just made up rule

who said its a rule

Oh yea. All of it.

but why then I MUST do that if I want to keep it ?

any specifically?

ah space

Also design is terrible.

its never been a rule

Sorry but very hard to look at this map.

do you have any leader who may explain to you that you should not force whatever you want?

I dont understand all the weird artifacts either but up to you i guess.

disrespectfully calling everything as a waste of time

whatever you dont like

I didnt

Coke did

Giving opinions

I respect your opinion, truly. BUT unless you put map test on hold because I disagree to some of those

He has tested hundreds of maps and seen what works and what tends to not work.

The open space simply doesnt make sense either. Especially in a short map. But I dont mind it, its just in my mind why would you do these massive gaps between parts.

I like them, so I explicitly said that I want them to be exactly where they are. Everything else mention was changed

but he keep pushing with it

u fixed the t0 chaos?

yes

Okay well you still seem very angry and upset that you had to fix this with constant wall of texts so it makes it seem like you didnt fix what he asked.

usually mappers send screen shots or give an update on what they fix.

yes, it was there

Because in the end they are looking for opinions on what looks and feels good. Generally. No one is perfect in the end.

or should I explain what "sv_team 2" does?

Please do.

Does Kobra 4 use it?

thought I should not do that in testing channel. Sv_team 2 enforces you to join team before you cross start line

wanted to say something about it after the map is ready

Careful, he doesnt want to put any effort into actually fixing things.

maybe just shrink the map then

but imo would be much cooler if u add +2 parts to the existing 6

especially when u already got the space

Both those options require effort sadly.

first option being 10 minutes of effort. Sounds like a lot.

whoever sends a map in should keep in mind that u have to do some fixes if the map isnt perfect yet

xd

I think 99% of mappers understand this concept.

why i havent counted my fix time on teestroyer, i bet its more than the whole map tooks

xD

but anyway, u dont need to rush it

That is the life of a mapper bro xD Me and soapy test for 10 hours constantly going through the our maps and seeing what feels good or what doesnt.

Mappers forget that they get used to their parts and ideas and they are much easier for them. And when that testing takes countless hours it will translate to countless hours to master a map for 99% of players.

sounds like this is a complex puzzle map xD

its a simple easy map for me idk, easy to fix too

I would not call this a puzzle map.

It may be a puzzle if you lack basic game knowledge of movement.

look at the

oh shit. As soapy said.

"Decline map, Gameplay can't be intentionally misleading or confusing. Map was confusing XD"

imagine this guy mapped a bunch of real puzzle maps

Ravie would have sleepless nights. Cant let players use their brain man.

yea yeah, you are too good for this map. We got it guys. Now, any examples of "real" puzzle maps ?

Puzzle partners for one.

also "Contrast and saturation shouldn't be too high so the map isn't an eyesore."

Brainduck 1 and 2

hmm, what is the difference between confusing map and puzzle like ?

Ask the lord and saviour Ravie. Rule was added after a player with a mind equal to Einstein started posting puzzle maps. Skystrife.

mapper doesn't have time for fixes, but there is time for endless discussions 🙂

https://tenor.com/view/im-waiting-aki-and-paw-paw-think-hmmm-gif-16473027

Hes typing

It was never really explained to me concretely why my puzzles were declined, or what could be changed to be accepted 🙂 and I did spend countless hours fixing everything they asked until they just basically said puzzle type maps aren't allowed anymore

I was told specifically maps like puzzle partners or justice or brainduck wouldn't be accepted today

This map is simple enough that it's not too confusing imo but what do I know

I dont have time for things that is called "improvements" not fixes.

I will fix if there is something very important found

Because they dont truly know why themselves. It makes no sense why you would discourage thinking outside of the box. Thats exactly what a puzzle is in real life too.

But there was opportunity for you to dumb down your map to a degree that welcomes all players.

But if they are thinking of player incluvity then why are we releasing maps like hostile that has 2 finishes. Yes it is a good map . But it caters for 0.0001 % of players. I think puzzle maps have a bigger playerbase 🙂

Fix design, make map longer. (You can make it longer by adding parts in the open spaces that are used for nothing i think.)

what is wrong with design?

holup

Contrast and saturation shouldn't be too high so the map isn't an eyesore.

The map is too saturated and an eyesore.

I dont know how to fix design, will find a guy who could help with colors and stuff. Regarding length, I wont add more parts, and I want to keep space. Can you decline map for being too short ?

the reason will be : mapper wont understand what to fix

fix?

i leaved it open how to do it

it is not broken to fix it

never said its too short map

so you want to decline map for having space that you should walk through ?

I just trying to figure if it worth trying to fix design or it is going to be rejected

All i ask is that you never post a map again if this is your attitude. It's a pain to read and go in circles with you.

as i said if someone els think its good he can rls, i wont rls in this state

just because it has an empty space?

not only, all come together now xd

The open space is part of the "design" as well, with how it currently is, it has a more old-school feel and currently they do not accept maps that look like that, people have open areas in maps, but they aren't just flat open spaces with nothing in them since that apparently looks "bad" it's all subjective but it's the way it is

yeah this empty spaces looks just like a unfinished map or run out of ideas

but as i said its no problem just shrink map 😄

You can fix it by either shrinking the open space as mentioned before, or adding variation to it to make it look better

yes i leaved all open to fix it just gave ideas how to

But that takes 10 minutes of effort. (He says while arguing for 1 hour straight)

I think he more just wasn't understanding what was being asked

It has been said multiple times. He is just seeing what he wants to see.

Eh I like to give the benefit of the doubt to ppl 🙂

DDnet doesnt deserve you.

it is part of map, I see that you dont like it but it is gona stay there. Said it like 15 times already

I don't personally mind it at all, I was just saying why the testers would not accept

I enjoyed playing the map

Whats the main reason you dont like to edit it? It just doesnt meet the standard requirements compared to current maps

I believe it's because he is an older mapper that has many released maps in the past and this was his way of doing things, but since then the testing climate has become more strict. Im a fan of his other maps but they are also definitely in an older style design-wise just as this one is

the main reason is that despite of it simplicity, I love it being there. As simple as that

Some of his older maps rank in my top 5 or 10 for most fun maps. Like maximum speed and Nucl. Doesnt change the fact that this feels like it could be a lot better.

good gameplay 👍

dummy approved

i think the empty space is there so the map has a ramp up feeling (the amount of parts gets more and more ig)

cant really see any other reason why it is there

in a nutshell it was added as a simple transition that looks good when you speedrun the map. There is another reason united with the map name, but it is not really important thing for testing.

I didnt want empty space that is combined with freeze or other easy to do parts, but I wanted that transition

we ended up calling it time wasting parts xD. Anyway, some like it and some does not, so please dont put your own prefferences high enough so you force me to change it

i think its more of a space waste not rly a time waster like coke said

but the maps kinda weird with it imo

not really, it has multiple purpose. Another one is to prevent you from jumping upstairs from the next part (on parts 2 and 3). If I shrink it, I would have to add something that blocks you from doing that, some obstickle inbetween the parts which would be in a way of speedrunners. But shrinking too short map to make it shorter is counterproductive is not it ?

i mean it wouldnt remove any gameplay

just 1 sec if walking or whatever

but ye i get it

idk guys... I have no idea what happens while you test maps nowadays but I feel like we discussing so much insignificant things. I wish you guys were earlier there, perhaps I would ve changed that.

and I feel like it is easier to get released if you initially post map with bugs so by fixing actual bugs you "show" that you work on map

otherwise you get "improves" that you cant discard instead

and maybe I am wrong...

maybe you could try to add some smaller parts in between structures so cannot cheat other ones next to it

it would be kinda hard to do probably

have anyone played this map with a real teammate (for the second time so you know what is next) ? Please confirm that empty space was unpleasant in any way. If you could frankly confirm it, I will throw what I think about it away and change it straight away.

its just ugly

nothing else

for me at least

breaks the symmetry of the map real bad

yeah bro, but maps made for playing not for looking at it 🙂

cap

both

do you look at it in game or zoomed out ?

I dont think players does this, I have never done that in my entire life

I dont care how map looks like while zoomed out

i always look at the overall map fully zoomed out

idk its just a habit of mine

whenever I join new map to me I just check first couple of parts without touching zoom

you sound like a graphics guy, maybe you could tweak the colors on the map so it looks better ?

aintnoway

i couldnt even do my own maps design

i just like well put together structures

me niether haha, but dont tell the others

I care, gives me an idea if map is good (weird old design means map sux imo 99% times works)

You've never zoomed out on a map to see how long it is and if it's worth your time?

oh well, sometimes I do check how many parts are left in the middle of the run but I never going nuts with zooming out.

perhaps I am too old for that feature

there are many ways to make it look better

Is this the mappers first time uploading anything?

no but very long break

so hes not fimilar with the testing nowdays

but that will certainly change, it just takes time 😄

Ah I see

I think there are some very easy ways that this map can be improved ^^ all it needs as a better attidude

I have a few difficulties with your map - as also partly noted by Coke in advance. Your parts are fine, but I'm not a big fan of the big gaps in between. Since the map only contains 5 parts currently, it doesn't look complete to me - like half of it is missing. The design of your current last part doesn't really match the rest of the map, these weird gaps don't fit at all - also the tele can hardly be recognized. Currently, the map is for me still far from a release. For me, the map would have to be a little longer, the large gaps must be filled and the design made consistent.

It's up to you now what should happen with the map. 🙂

Feel free to ping me when you've come to a decision.

$waiting

I hardly see how those difficulties interferes with common player experience. Forget about everything you have learned as "tester" here. Imagine you just connected to official ddnet server with this map and just finished it with dummy and then I asked you ingame "hi! Did you like the map? Would you like to play one more time ?". What would be the answer? (probably you should play the map one more time (or even first time) to answer it but I really interested in it)

I can change the design to your liking, but the rest is most likely gona stay.

I just dont want to ask anyone to do a design for the map which is going to be discarded.

No gameplay sacrifice is going to be made to my maps for the sake of good looking.

I can give a decent design and all found bugs fixes. If it is enough for release then I will start looking for a guy who could help with design.

If not - I am fine with no-release, I wont lose anything and you guys have another tons of mappers. The only question is whether community wants this or not, whether Players like it or not.

Doesnt matter if someone likes it, I like it too but we can't rls a unfinished map

All these things are not much work, all together may cost 30min. If this is too much for you, let it be, I have tried everything. If you could give the map a good look yourself it would have been done, maybe I would have helped you if you were not so stubborn 😁

Anything that needs to be changed involves endless discussion, a good example was team force, you can clearly see that this map is not made for team 0, yet it took days to change it. This is rather unnecessary

So we wait for a final dicision

What to do with the map, just decline and u rework it when u have the 30min time, or set it on waiting until it gets archivated

I even did the work to educate Savalic about the map and told him to speak his mind. No matter what I said before

What you mean unfinished? it was finished long time ago.

It does not mater how much time any change cost. I could spend a whole day without a doubt on a change that would improve map for majority of players.

It is just you demand a weird things which I am not agree with or do not understand. I have stepped over myself a few times to break crucial things down just to make map more "common" but I cba doing it anymore so I said "no more improvements accepted".

doesnt matter when u finished a map urself

teestroyer and hush maps from 2021 btw

how would u know that players like it or not

it is not possible to include all opinions, that's why there are a few selected testers who tell you how the map should look like.

moving parts together or inserting new parts does not make the map common

i still don't know exactly what the problem is, should we decline for now then?

"stepped over myself" its a clearly 2p map, there is no need to step over urself if u realise thats it just wrong to let the map open for t0

if everything seems so incomprehensible and difficult then it is probably the right thing to do to simply decline the map

never said that it is wrong to allow t0

(already said like 10 times i like the map)

yes seems like you don't really understand it

whatever, what is done is done

if you used to something it does not make it correct automatically

back then with 16 tee server yes

nowdays its a bit different

nope

allowing t0 does not prohibit other teams

nothing different

never said that 😄

whats wrong then?

just answered about this

what is wrong with allowing t0?

already said that often enough

meh

its always the same over and over again

u want to fix the map or not? 😄

fix?

it is not broken

find me defect and I will fix it

its always the same over and over again²

yes, it will be over n over unless you recognize mapper opinions

already said something about this

yeah, "testers knows everything better"

I remember

its the normal process to make the map releasable

yeah, f your normal process really xD

I was for too long in this game. I ve seen enough to say that

its never too long

its timeless 😛

yes maybe, but the way you treat mappers is disguisting to me

i know that you helps and dont get paid and shit

but I am getting nothing out of it either

i treat mappers how they want it

ig when map looks worse then 60% of ddmaxes it's a problem that should be also fixed

i came back to mapping after 5year break, i was also not up to date with mapping nowdays

u have to realise that its different today

yeah, I ve seen latest releases. Nothing innovative honestly, the biggest change I ve noticed is tons of graphics which I ignore while I am playing anyway, so not really. Nearly nothing changed, maybe style a bit.

I mean if you think the map not worth releasing overall I am fine, just decline. But I am not going to "fix" fucking space even if it is going to be decisive bettween release and not

cant see the innovative thing in this map

for me its a normal moderate map

xd

not even puzzle map how u call it

real puzzle map = puzzle partners

then check very first messages in the thread

never said its not worth releasing

maybe u over read all the messeges where i said i like the map

like other things i said

just said its a normal map than all others

nothing special for me

I have seen that man but I have my own opinion on what is true and wrong also. So some changes demands or requests simply discarded by me

maximum speed was one of my favorite solo maps

sadly testers missed a cheat

wanna a secret?

nah

i dont think its a good idea to leave skips in a already short map

but whatever

maps made for fun, not for timewasting

I dont understand your obsessity with map length xD

I`d prefer to have a short but fun map to play it over and over again

over long one

since I dont care about pts and play purely for fun

nothing new for me

so what is wrong with short maps ?

i dont think its a good idea to leave skips in a already short map²

why?

and it looks like its not wanted cp cheat ^^

like the kill skip in to the moon

i think it was the same case for maximum speed

too much ppl already did it

like 98%

mhm, I dont even know what skip you are talking about but sure.

cp skip near end

to skip shields

and what do they want?)

was there a decision so far?

dont wanna read all of the discussion

so you go back to take shotgun instead of doing the part? Does not seem like you gaining much out of it, but it was not added intentionally from what I remember or maybe it was

yeah think so, he want to keep the map like it is

I just had chat with some ddnet player, I am gona work on map with him from now

u take cp and go into cfrm

will take some time before I post update

cto was added after shields and cp b4 shields

so u skip shields with that

yeah, but is not it faster to just do a part?

sad

its ofc faster

xD

its longcut then KEKW

bcs u dont need jetpack

and skip end part

part b4 end too

so simply skipping all after that cp

4~ parts

so decline for now?

will stay 2 months in waiting b4 it gets removed

nah, it wont take that much time

This discussion has been on for so long is mapper fixing things like empty spaces etc or?

tbh if design were fixed it would be well releaseable

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZGJCSsw62/

Reminds me of this discussion with bannzay

I would fix it immediately if some one told me that no empty space would prevent the release since I was not going to remove it (therefore there was no point to do a new design). But my questions left unanswered.

It’s not that empty space makes it unreleasable it’s that where u put it has easily enough space for parts etc so just feels weird

$archive_imm