this is your map's testing channel! Post map updates here and remember to follow our mapper rules: https://ddnet.org/rules

https://ddnet.org/testmaps/?map=Hostile_3

Finally

😄

It's been 7 years since the last hostile

I think i played through most of parts before

I think so too

I'm down to test this tommorow when I wake up

Sure, I'll just add the time cps in the meantime

Kk I'll be home from work at 6am then sleep prolly till 14 xd

Even though it feels awkward to place them at obvious places

Map isn't fit to add time cps, it just makes it look worse imo

Yeah, we'll see what we do about it then

Doubt many time cps are needed here tho 5 should be enough

There are very few places where both tees run together

Yeah true

the gap between this one and the 2nd one is huge, sure the first one is a 4 star brutal and the second is a 5 star, but the difference between this one and 2nd is like 3 stars xd making this at least 2 star insane

im guessing this will be 2 star insane or 3 star?

map is nice, but this part is so much harder then the rest

ur prolly doing it wrong

probably yes

and yes, you might not do it properly

there are multiple ways to do that part

I'd like to see how you do it

New insane map

Might give it a go today

what a lovely design!

Thanks 🙂

Added time cps and removed 1 kill tile

what is that 1 kill tile you removed

Right on the crosshair

So it's more comfortable

I found bugs on a pipouuu map

looks beautiful tho

Thanks

Those stones are painful

I checked them many times

😄

$ready 2

"Parts can't be excessively precise or punishing only to increase the difficulty" one of the random mapping rules other than that dont you need 2 testers to ready a map (mapper excluded in this case)

Also a gameplay showcase would be nice since its really hard to see if a part is way harder than the rest or not

The thing is that it's the principal of the map, kill tiles weren't added only to increase the difficulty

That's counterproductive

There isn't just one way to pass the parts

It's up to you to find the most efficient or comfortable way to complete them

That's why the map was tested

The only purpose of those rules were to help novice mappers and to prevent common mistakes. And no, you don't need 2 testers to ready a map but more are required to actually test a map, to have different point of view, to look for cheats (and alternative ways), to test the flow, to look for improvements for speedrunning, to balance the map as a whole, to make it more comfortable (even with kill tiles)..

Even if the gameplay is good and well tested and the map has been in production for whatever long The fact that this took only a few days to get tested and ready in my opinion is really cringe There are and were several other maps waiting way longer for any help on them and the fact that a tester can just post a map and have it be ok in a few days is just not fair But i guess thats one of the many problems with the testing system that has been brought up many times before that seems to never be a concern for those that profit from it

ok so basically the rules are simply a suggestion

i get what you mean but its the rules lol, if they dont work for every difficulty or gameplay style they are probably bad or should be more specific about where they apply

if i was him id simply state, I made this map so im accepting it. who's stopping me?

i wouldn't argue then and im not arguing now xd

Pipou tested a ton of maps these past days + today. This map got ready quickly because its by a very experienced mapper and a tester helped him to ready it fastly. Thats not really possible on maps with inexperienced mappers. Why would this map sit and wait in testing like other maps if it can be ready very quickly?

The fact is that if some random submitted this map, one of the so called inexperienced mappers then this would have likely stayed here for a month or two

But no one seems to see a problem with that, so ill just refrain from typing anymore

Map looks good and i will prob play it so goodjob

he's not wrong btw, if corneum posted a map it would be accepted in less then a week, he's one of the best mappers and the testers would be happy to see him still mapping, but if pipou makes a map and gives it to another person to post it here, it would take a while, experienced mappers maps are like a fast accept since there's no point in teaching them anything if they're the best at it

Map looks amazing even if test was not in fair queue

I don't understand why we'd wait and keep a map in testing when there is nothing left to test. That applies to any map. Those other maps you are talking about actually have many issues, thus, it takes even more time to get them released because mappers lack the experience or they are too easily satisfied with what they make, leading to a poor gameplay and design.

That's not true. I yearn to see great maps, with barely anything to test, unfortunately that's not often the case. A great map is a great map (to test), no matter who made it. It relies a lot on the mappers during the testing phase starting with their will to edit their map (properly) and the time spent between each step of the testing process (feedback, update and so on).

An example that comes to my mind is https://ddnet.org/testlogs/show/Electric

It took a novice mapper less than a month to get his map released, because he was devoted to improve his map gameplay-wise and design-wise

Also, the more complicated the gameplay, the harder it is to test and to find issues, cheats. The same applies to the design, the more complicated the design, the longer it takes to find bugs

Hostile 3 is short, with a simple gameplay (few entities) and a very simple design. Moreover, my experience helps a lot to know what to do and not to do. I started that map in 2016 so no I'm not in a hurry, it wasn't rushed. The map was ready for ages. I tested it over and over again, polished it with 5 other people, on my own

So now tell me it's unfair ?

send gameplay

i dont care how many ways are there

excuse me I didn't test the map yet (I will do so as soon as I find a partner) but this doesn't look like a decent map at all even though it's by pipou and I really liked the first two maps of the series but as mentioned above this simply seems to be too precise and punishing and tbh that this rule was designed to guide "novice mappers" might well be, this is understandable and I don't want to be rude or offensive in any way but some places simply could've been mapped by a "novice mapper" if you pretend to not know who the mapper is

like this for example

but maybe that's just me and I repeat I didn't test the gameplay yet but the release seems definitely too rushed

i want more corners

$decline

I’ll make a map with absolutely no corners now

instant $decline

or u can name the map "no corners" and then ill aprove it

Nah, actually have an idea that could work with no corners, will probably still have a couple though

Anyways wrong channel

The changes are the following :

Red : made it simpler so you don't have to do the cheat any longer and hook close to max range (avoiding to reach the kill tiles)

Blue : removed the kill tiles at the top so you won't be tempted to hammer too late (and have the other hit the wall)

Yellow : added a new "part"

$ready 2

$ready 2

$reset

$ready

$reset

$ready 2

broke

XD

Glad testing is finally fixed now every mapper gets their shot cause they can just approve their own maps XD

quick stop this abuse of power XD

^

^

can I get a demo of a whole clean run without making any cuts or using super?

Just make friends in the testing team

Play around abit in super test the map abit

Ignore most feedback thats put in testing channel

$ready

Thats ddnet testing

Facts

I wonder why mapping quality has gone go to absolute shit the past 1/2 years

Thankfully we got Pipou to put an end to the stupidity of Ravie, sadly Pipou is just more of the same.

Yip it's unfair 👍
How about we open that as an option to all mappers. As long as they tell us they tested it over and over and polished it then we should just release the map. Or how about you fix map testing so this stupid shit doesn't happen instead of just fixing the problems for yourself when they bother you.

🍿

Agreed. There should be compulsory testing. There should be more opinions on this map regardless if it's ready or not.

Also maybe implement a priority list. I.E maps that have been in testing longer should be tested first.

so u mean every official tester should test each map? 2 of 10 testers have tested this map (at least what i can see in this channel)

Y'all coming on a little too strong, I agree there's issues, and the priority list would be a fantastic idea, but chill acting aggressive at pipou and giving sarcastic comments isn't really helpin

Boutta have same drama as the other one >.>

No just more opinions would be good and healthy.

If you have a tester role, surely you should be testing. However there is only one tester i see doing 90% of the work. And thats pipou.

I started asking nicely like 4 years ago. Nobody did shit. Turns out public shit like this is the only way things don't get ignored or forgotten.

yea lately pipou has done a lot of work, me and some other testers had their prime testing time in a different time period i guess

Well testing is just a role that gives you more power than other people. It doesn't come with any responsibility at all.

one of them being the mapper himself or? xd

yes

nice!

not biased at all

Quick tell all the mappers to test their own maps

From what u can see some mappers that upload maps don't test them at all

Time to sleep gl

Sure but if they did and told us the map was good then we can release.

Just say the map has been in works for several years and many people have tested, should be ready within 2 days imo

2 out of 10 dentists recommend this product

Yeah he is doing a lot for the community and i respect him for that.

But the point is that a map needs feedback to improve. And I dont think it's fair to other mappers to sit for months on end while this gets readied in a few days.

Nor is it healthy for maps to get the opinion of one tester. Because again that also does come down to preference and personal taste regardless of if he is experienced or not. Just sadly there is no other testers helping pipou so he has no alternative but to be the sole opinion on these maps.

Not only will they ready it, you'll also get a release date quick quick

i completely agree. i also think that the testing system needs to be redone but then the argument of "testers are doing it voluntarily" comes to play which is right too of course. Back in my prime testing era i advocated the idea of kicking very inactive testers out the team which means i would now also needed to be kicked since ive done like nothing in the past months with a few exceptions.

I think the whole priority list idea would fix most of this

Don't worry Knuski, aslong as you don't call Ravie a dick publicly you should be fine

thats why it wont be implemented

Priority list won't fix everything, you also need to force testers to test.

not everything, I said most

Ok not even most.

When the map that nobody wants to test comes up then nobody will test

Oi go

Just making a mess in a channel

Yes well with no incentive (does not have to be monetary) people lose motivation to test. it is understandable. But Maybe the testing should be restructured to provide incentive for testers. Special badges or something in game. Just spit balling.

But yes you are right that inactive testers should be removed. And able to reapply when they feel they want to test again. But yeah these are not all the solutions to fix testing. Possibly not even the right way. There should be discussions about these things with the community who play these maps.

Off topic sounds easy to ignore

Or I can time u out

yes lets move the discussion to

so we can not discus this and then completely ignore all feedback that has been given and then this will happen again in 5months

see you guys there!!

Might aswell I won't stop causing shit.

Also fuck ravie and pipou 🙂

likewise

Ravie that's off topic bro

then let's keep it on topic before we get kicked from the channel

who gets kicked first

no nsfw

yea mods arent watching rn (

)

I'm sleeping

I bet Ravie gets kicked first this time

🫡

Bro don't do this at work XD

I ain't setting off this bomb either

Ah guess the trend in DDNet is testers don't have to test, moderators don't have to moderate. I guess there is no problems and this is just the norm. Sorry for bringing anything up then.

literally me xD

There u go

U got moderated

Free Soapy

you didnt read him his rights bro

he has a right to remain silent

if I moderate here no change is gonna happen, unrest will grow, and sourness will increase between the mapping community and the testers. I actually think that if we move the conversation to mapping or off-topic the topic will be buried under othe rconversations and nothing will happen, and I'd like for change to happen is what I meant

btw who is tatak

one of the mappers I believe

:p

i can give u my alt if u need

I feel when he's gonna come back some big wall of text will appear

i hope so

tbh its still pretty crappy to timeout soapy for literally no reason

Wdym no reason

trolling and insulting testers is no reason?

I said go to off topic or mapping

And ^

actually, i agree on moving to offtopic, so the ai discussion gets flooded

i do that all the time!

That's a lot to read

A lot of testing I guess

I'll try to reply to every message so don't reply too fast (or don't expect a quick answer from me)

war, war never changes testing, testing never changes

xD

we did about the same amount of testing as the testers themselves

No I won't provide a video, I never did, won't do. I don't time for it unfortunately

I suggest you read the messages I already wrote a little before

Moderator test complete. They do moderate when asked nicely ❤️

get ur 1 dollar puzzle mapper ass back to offtopic

New mappers, new trends/meta, new tiles

Yea suka stopped mapping

Sure, thanks ill read it once i get home first priority

Agreed, this isn't just trolling, there are reasons behind what people are saying. I guess you could stop me with a perma ban but aslong as I can talk I will try to change people's minds on how unfairly the testing is handled on DDNet. If I can't talk on discord I will just keep on trying to point out the problems to more players.

I have a dream...

Véna, Blurry, nothing, Cireme, tatak and I tested the map. Because nothing was written here doesn't mean it wasn't tested. I often talk directly to the mappers in-game whenever I can as well. Colocolo also gave me a feedback in DM. I usually test going from the top of the maps in "MAP TESTING" to the newest, sadly it's not always possible (usually maps with too many problems)

I'm sure the people you spend every time playing this game with wont be biased towards your opinion at all and definitely doesnt reinforce my point i made earlier too

I disagree with you. You are responsible for the maps you $ready. By doing so, you acknowledge that the map is bug free and ready to go live

The role doesn't come with responsibility Pipou, sure you are responsible if you use the role to do things but the role itself doesn't come with any responsibility. That's the problem.

No, because they are objective and I always remind them to be and not to be subjective, to be nice to me, which would be pointless. I'm not asking them to test to tell me what I already know, otherwise why ask them at all ?

I always try and ask people who are the target audience of my maps. I only asked people who had the skill and experience to play such a map. On the contrary, I asked novice players to test Lavender Forest when I made it, to have the best answers possible

i'm trying to find a nice way to say this, biases don't just go away like that, it's a nice sentiment and all but yeah

lavender forest is great

Nepotism can never be defined as objective lol

and in this very channel 3 very competent players pointed out a part as being overly punishing but they were ignored? xd because they are not ur friends or what?

"just do the part right" 👍

Well we speak the truth to each other. If it's shit it's shit, that's why we rarely post any maps and that VéNa never got his map released

I won't try to be nice with them because they are my friends, I won't use pretty words like I do in testing channels (and vice versa about them, to me)

Tatak already talked to them, in-game

Everything has been taken into account, that's why I uploaded that last version

Ah good that the last version got tested XD

That's the type of map that forces it : very short and precise And actually, there are several ways to pass the parts, it's just up to you to find what's best for you as it always was the case for any map

Unfortunately this channel has been too crowded for it to be seen and barely anyone is up for testing

Ur kidding right? then why ready it? the reason this channel is crowded is because it got readied without testing

So I'm sorry if you think it's unfair, I tried to improve the testing system by adding rules for your liking and by getting more testers

But nobody seems to be involved or if they do, it's once per semester, if anything at all

Most people just join the test servers, play, (criticize the maps sometimes) without writing feedback afterward

The only testing that was done was mostly finding design bugs for corners (which is useful, but far from essential)

Find people who will spend their time (hours), for free, to do full reports as a tester should

It was tested again by 5 people before I uploaded it, but I meant for more people to test

You seem to often pick up fights against topics you know nothing of

Or you just assume to have all the info

That's often the case with experienced mappers : a quick look around, a bit of map reading (unless the map has to be played), check for bugs in gameplay/design/editor, then it's good to go

That would be better for me to just be happy for new released maps and not know what is going on test channels

I already replied to the first part of it. Yes it's unfair in that way for other mappers to have to wait but it relies on the quality of the map (bugs of any kind, unwanted cheats, the map style/structure (puzzle maps or complex or non linear maps, or even 3p maps that require more people to gather to test), the design, the gameplay, the flow, the difficulty, its length, the time spent from one update to another, more bugs, more problems...) and it also depends on the number of testers who tested the map. I agree it's not healthy for maps to get the opinion of one tester, but sometimes we are not given the chance to do otherwise. I again disagree when it comes to "preference and personal taste". You should leave that idea behind. As a tester, you should and you are impartial, objective. Side note, if anything were to rely on my liking, we'd only get a dozen map per year (if that helps justify my neutrality).

Ah ok I guess that means test isnt needed, big brain

You can't force a tester to test as you can't force a moderator to moderate or a coder to code. It's all about voluntary work

https://discord.com/channels/252358080522747904/1095837534950522980/1100801570108616704

Both part of the hotheaded gang

If we did remove the testers, we'd be down to 3

(not complaining and not doing that)

xD

Yes you can, that's just a silly opinion. You can say with this tester role you are required to do the following or you will lose the role.

I disagree with this, the second it becoms forced testing will be of lower quality

I wouldn't say "likewise", I'm sad you happen to act like that. Kind words once again

By "you", I meant Soapy, replying to https://discord.com/channels/252358080522747904/1095837534950522980/1100789371193544784

Based on?

capitalism

Ah yeah I forgot all about capitalism my bad

testers aren't getting payed

I missed that message. Once again, just like Ryu, you talk without knowing anything. A mapper can ask for a preferential date (if he/she is unavailable at the date of release). Maps are released in order of $ready. I even told snail he could pick any day because I don't care

i should draw that one meme with the pipe and the fat rich guy getting all da water but replacing it with deen

(hes getting all that ddfunding)

lmao

I think I replied to everything (hopefully I didn't forget anything or I'll still be trashed out of thin air)

I wasn't getting paid and refused to test unless it was required. If you are willing to do something for free then why in the world would payment be in question.

if testing becomes mandatory i would just leave tester role 😹

this

Then in all honesty louis shouldn't be a tester

if testing becomes mandatory, testing will be done for the sake of meeting a quota, not because you wanna approve good maps

i had an idea where if you wanted your map to get released you have to do at least 3 decent tests on other maps, that would work much better than requiring testers to test

i dont think anyone is a tester just for the clout role

agreed

so that rule wouldn't have much of an effect

There are people willing to test because they care about the game

how do the first people get their maps released? paradox?

then those people would test whether they're required or not

i wouldnt lol

only if it gets $ready i guess

in that case they're decent enough to be able to test other maps

imagine you had to ban x amount of people per week as a ddnet moderator

i could be a mod

that brings up a good point

mandatory testing would probably lead to lower quality tests

xddd

the best feedback happens when someone is willingly testing a map and looking into details

exactly

If people dont wanna release good maps they shouldn't be testers regardless of whether its compulsary or not.

A good idea but you would want to encourage a testing queue also

Yes, that's why I said https://discord.com/channels/252358080522747904/1095837534950522980/1100809365927252039

You guys should continue this discussion somewhere else, it looks like it's not related to this map at all anymore

testing isn't just about releasing good maps though, it's for inexperienced mappers to know how to improve as well (imo)

That would be a dumb way to monitor it. Are you suggesting there aren't good ways to monitor moderators work?

Yeah i should do the ping in offtopic again

Lower quality tests are better than no tests.....

I'd wish all the participants here to actually come in testing to test maps. You spent about 3 hours talking here, you might as well spend 3 hours on DDNet's testing servers and help us release maps faster

ok i will test the maps when i get home

homeless

richest serbian

Ok I never said testers wouldnt help inexperienced mappers though....

only thing that really shows up on logs is bans and timeouts, I try to solve all issues I see peacefully at first and it works out pretty well (sometimes), but only way to hold that accountable is for me to record it or for an admin to be undercover in a server with me (which I heard they do sometimes but there's way more mods than admins anyway)

what I'm saying is that it's those people that would suffer the most from making testing forced

🔒

just to answer on the order of release, I release the first ready'd map first (unless specific request from mapper), and I try to avoid releasing several map of the same server type / mapper in a row. since we have like 80% of solo maps, any non-solo maps will get released faster