14:00 < bridge> [teeworlds] fwiw we just removed the taiwanese flag from traditional chinese as the chinese community made us feel like we were taking a political stance 14:00 < bridge> [teeworlds] 🤣 14:00 < bridge> [teeworlds] either way you do i guess 14:00 < bridge> [teeworlds] The flag itself is still available as a player flag as we already call it region, not country 14:00 < bridge> [teeworlds] I guess the taiwanese flag by itself is a bit of a political stance 14:01 < bridge> [teeworlds] but removing the flag from the countryflags, eh 14:01 < bridge> [teeworlds] the problem is that taiwan doesn't have a flag 14:01 < bridge> [teeworlds] Well strictly speaking the problem is that taiwan doesn't exist, is not recognized as a country and thus can't have an official flag 14:02 < bridge> [teeworlds] Don't most western countries recognize it as a country? 14:02 < bridge> [teeworlds] No, too scared of china 14:02 < bridge> [teeworlds] emoji just use a Republic of China's flag as taiwan's flag. 14:02 < bridge> [teeworlds] 🤨 But ISO standard taiwan is province of china 14:02 < bridge> [teeworlds] but ISO is pro china too. 14:02 < bridge> [teeworlds] wikipedia says Taiwan/RepublicOfChina is a country in East Asia 14:03 < bridge> [teeworlds] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/490150878934990850/772083252906950696/unknown.png 14:03 < bridge> [teeworlds] As far as the hypocritical west is concerned, there is no taiwan, there is only Chinese Taipei 14:03 < bridge> [teeworlds] Apparently only 5 UN members sort of recognize Taiwan 14:03 < bridge> [teeworlds] my understanding was that "Chinese Taipei" is a name that both sides are okay with 14:04 < bridge> [teeworlds] taiwan is schrodinger's cat, it is a country and it is not at the same time 14:04 < bridge> [teeworlds] is England a country? 14:04 < bridge> [teeworlds] I'm not sure how fine someone from Taiwan would be about the name "Chinese Taipei" 14:05 < bridge> [teeworlds] what I understood was that since both sides claim to be China they're both fine being called chinese 14:05 < bridge> [teeworlds] It's sort of like England yeah, not sure if the chinese goverment allows regions to have flags except for the autonomous ones 14:06 < bridge> [teeworlds] 🤨 i don't think china the gov care too much. but china the population is extra stupid. 14:06 < bridge> [teeworlds] England does have a football team though 14:06 < bridge> [teeworlds] and they got the population so it is hard to clam them. 14:07 < bridge> [teeworlds] lol 14:07 < bridge> [teeworlds] and there is no problem about being able to pick the English flag in Teeworlds, it does not mean they are independent from UK, right 14:07 < bridge> [teeworlds] like if our town design a flag, as long as we don't fly them above china's flag, doubt anyone would care. 14:08 < bridge> [teeworlds] @Dune I doubt anyone in the UK would even care if we implied England was it's own country 14:09 < bridge> [teeworlds] Anyway, calling it region seems to be the easiest course of action 14:09 < bridge> [teeworlds] if we allow region flags we'll get a lot of regions asking for their flags though 14:09 < bridge> [teeworlds] ye, oy doesn't like the region idea. 14:10 < bridge> [teeworlds] Is there an issue with that though? Flags are cool 14:10 < bridge> [teeworlds] it's an endless battle 14:10 < bridge> [teeworlds] I think we already have enough flags without people from brittany catalonia and what not asking theirs 14:10 < bridge> [teeworlds] and every other region in the world 14:10 < bridge> [teeworlds] 🤨 but we have the unicode baseline tho. 14:10 < bridge> [teeworlds] Catalonia would indeed be an interesting one 😛 14:10 < bridge> [teeworlds] We could support just what unicode supports 14:11 < bridge> [teeworlds] 🇪🇺 14:11 < bridge> [teeworlds] we already had problems with those 14:11 < bridge> [teeworlds] I like the "stick with the football teams" policy 14:11 < bridge> [teeworlds] There is no official list of football teams anywhere is there? 😛 14:12 < bridge> [teeworlds] FIFA probably has one? 14:13 < bridge> [teeworlds] but if you use the FIFA one then macao is a problem 14:14 < bridge> [teeworlds] macao doesn't have a team? 14:15 < bridge> [teeworlds] nvm they do 14:15 < bridge> [teeworlds] but we are using ISO currently tho 14:15 < bridge> [teeworlds] We just need to hang in there until 2049 when china will integrate macao then we won't need to concern ourselves with this 14:15 < bridge> [teeworlds] 🤨 14:16 < bridge> [teeworlds] how about let's wait till the war begin then decide 14:16 < bridge> [teeworlds] that sounds like a concern @Learath2 because we'd have to remove the flag from the game 14:17 < bridge> [teeworlds] although i don't think it is going to happen, since both gov's are yelling at each other about a war. 14:17 < bridge> [teeworlds] who announce they are going to have a war lol 14:18 < bridge> [teeworlds] I think our best bet is to stick to a standard and push blame onto that when missing or extra flags are pointed out 14:18 < bridge> [teeworlds] ISO-FIFA-1 14:19 < bridge> [teeworlds] Heh 14:19 < bridge> [teeworlds] 🤨 i wanted to use the entire ISO standard. but that was apparently a bad idea too 14:19 < bridge> [teeworlds] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/490150878934990850/772087327127240725/unknown.png 14:19 < bridge> [teeworlds] Why? Just drop the independent flag, show it all under Country/Region 14:20 < bridge> [teeworlds] some of the missing one aren't real country, oy says. 14:21 < bridge> [teeworlds] i still think we can just call them "flags" 14:21 < bridge> [teeworlds] since they are ultimately, just "flags". 14:22 < bridge> [teeworlds] 🤨 then the "endless battle" is a thing 14:22 < bridge> [teeworlds] but i don't know why can't we call them "flags" while stick to the ISO standard 14:22 < bridge> [teeworlds] but i don't get why can't we call them "flags" while sticking to the ISO standard 14:24 < bridge> [teeworlds] "Country codes[2] defines codes for the names of countries, dependent territories, and special areas of geographical interest" Region or Flag sound like a fine compromise to me, what's the harm in people showing the flag of antarctica? 😛 14:25 < bridge> [teeworlds] the harm is a bunch of messages that say *hey guys why don't you show the flag of my region? what's the harm?* 14:25 < bridge> [teeworlds] It's not in ISO3166 would be the reason 14:26 < bridge> [teeworlds] 🤨 wouldn't you just reply with the same reason you reply with ppl asking why taiwan is shown. 14:26 < bridge> [teeworlds] taiwan is shown because of ISO-FIFA-1 :p 14:27 < bridge> [teeworlds] then what's wrong with call them flags AND use "ISO-FIFA-1" 14:27 < bridge> [teeworlds] I think that's fine 14:27 < bridge> [teeworlds] emm what 14:27 < bridge> [teeworlds] FWIW FIFA recognizes taiwan under the name "Chinese Taipei" 😄 14:27 < bridge> [teeworlds] *that was not how it goes yesterday.* 14:28 < bridge> [teeworlds] really freddie? 14:28 < bridge> [teeworlds] idk. maybe i'm stupid. 14:28 < Oy> think we agreed yesterday that flags would be ok 14:28 < bridge> [teeworlds] oh 14:29 < bridge> [teeworlds] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/490150878934990850/772089790858133504/unknown.png 14:29 < bridge> [teeworlds] i found the reason 14:29 < bridge> [teeworlds] yeah that was my memory too, Oy 14:29 < bridge> [teeworlds] 211 countries are registered with FIFA, I guess that is indeed enough 14:30 < bridge> [teeworlds] freddiebrain not working 5am 14:32 < bridge> [teeworlds] Sooo we are only using an interesting subset of ISO3166, those countries, dependent territories and subdivisions that also have a FIFA code 14:32 < bridge> [teeworlds] does that sound bad to you @Learath2 14:32 < bridge> [teeworlds] can't believe i was using the word "non-independent" yesterday. 14:33 < bridge> [teeworlds] I think it's a fine word 14:33 < bridge> [teeworlds] 😄 14:35 < Oy> think the currently not used ones are antarctica, french territories that have the same flag as france and another one that has the us flag 14:35 < bridge> [teeworlds] @Dune I think it works but I'm not sure if it solves the problem 14:35 < Oy> don't think there's a need to add them, as they're mostly duplicates 14:36 < bridge> [teeworlds] Given both FIFA and the IOC had to rename taiwan to chinese taipei for china to even consider becoming a member again 14:37 < bridge> [teeworlds] you need to click on the flag to see its name don't you? really need people to be looking to be offended for that to happen 14:37 < Oy> we don't have country names in tw, so the name thing shouldn't be an issue 14:37 < bridge> [teeworlds] yeah 14:37 < bridge> [teeworlds] let's just be careful about not adding them 14:37 < bridge> [teeworlds] sure. i didn't start doing the search function anyway. 14:38 < bridge> [teeworlds] Oh, I guess then it's fine as is. ISO3166 without duplicates + antarctica doesn't sound bad 14:39 < bridge> [teeworlds] I wish we could document this somewhere 14:39 < Oy> yeah, we should avoid that problem 14:39 < bridge> [teeworlds] i think we have ISO3166-1 written in the json file 14:39 < bridge> [teeworlds] Well we already use ISO3166 2 letter codes, I think that at least implies we are using ISO3166 listing 14:40 < bridge> [teeworlds] just something we can link someone to 14:40 < bridge> [teeworlds] maybe even a code comment? 14:40 < Oy> https://github.com/teeworlds/teeworlds/blob/master/datasrc/countryflags/index.json 14:40 < bridge> [teeworlds] maybe change "not used" to duplicate 14:40 < Oy> we have custom ones and ISO 3166-1 entries 14:41 < bridge> [teeworlds] https://github.com/teeworlds/teeworlds/blob/9ad1642f7e781df5784321a499d7f43520b2a827/datasrc/countryflags/index.json#L1014 14:42 < bridge> [teeworlds] also if we change the name to "flags" we can add probably add antarctica? 14:42 < bridge> [teeworlds] Actually we do list some subdivisions, it still leaves us with "Why is my subdivision not listed?" 14:43 < bridge> [teeworlds] uk is the only one i think. not counting the languages ones 14:43 < bridge> [teeworlds] Turkish people would be rather unhappy if you add iraqs kurdistan subdivision 😄 14:44 < bridge> [teeworlds] I think having a FIFA code is indeed a better criterion 14:46 < bridge> [teeworlds] should've just have europe/east asia/west asia/north america/south america etc instead of the country thing from the start (jk) 14:46 < Oy> though fifa flags might differ from the country flag 14:47 < bridge> [teeworlds] True, Taiwan uses their olympic flag for their football team 14:48 < bridge> [teeworlds] probably because Republic of China's flag isn't allowed 14:50 < bridge> [teeworlds] I hate politics. I can't offer any further advice as I myself don't know what the best course of action would be. I guess we should just keep it like this and say no to requests for new flags 14:50 < bridge> [teeworlds] 🤨 tbh i don't know either. i'm just scared of ppl. 14:50 < bridge> [teeworlds] If someone asks us why we list UKs subdivisions we can say we are huge football fans, that should protect us from criticism 14:51 < bridge> [teeworlds] @TsFreddie you can tell them it's more akin to England and Scotland. Neither of which are independent countries. Maybe that'll calm them down 14:52 < bridge> [teeworlds] oh trust me i've tried. 14:53 < bridge> [teeworlds] we were using chinese translation to evade some anger. then they saw the english text and then ddnet changed it i think. 14:54 < bridge> [teeworlds] Country is technically correct for "England" btw. The UK is a collection of countries 14:55 < bridge> [teeworlds] which is what they've googled to attack me when I explained. 14:56 < Oy> we can change "country" to "flag" in the ui and "not used" to "duplicates" in the json index file. then it should be fine 14:56 < bridge> [teeworlds] ye. 14:57 < bridge> [teeworlds] Well being called a "country" doesn't imply anything. There is no sovereignty implied by somewhere being called a country. Leave it to non-native speakers to misunderstand terms like this 14:58 < bridge> [teeworlds] Interesting, I didn't know. Is there an equivalent word in german or that's an english concept? 14:58 < bridge> [teeworlds] Also, we unfortunately have translations 14:59 < bridge> [teeworlds] I don't think french has a word that doesn't imply sovereignty for example 15:01 < bridge> [teeworlds] Well the turkish word for country doesn't imply sovereignty either 15:01 < bridge> [teeworlds] But the term Country itself is a veeeery problematic term. It caused many diplomatic issues all over the world 15:02 < bridge> [teeworlds] 🤨 To fully explain what countries actually means in chinese probably would take one or two sentences. otherwise it just means nations. 15:05 < bridge> [teeworlds] UK literately translate to "the england nation" in chinese. it is really hard for chinese to understand why UK is multiple countries. 15:05 < bridge> [teeworlds] There is a reason the UN adopted "State" and "Sovereign State" which don't have debatable definitions when talking about this thing 15:05 < bridge> [teeworlds] Well that was the intention 15:06 < bridge> [teeworlds] Then people decided to debate them aswell 😛 15:06 < bridge> [teeworlds] edit: "the eng nation" since we only take a single syllable. 15:07 < Oy> Dune the the correct german word would be "Land", when you use "Staat" you imply sovereignty 15:07 < bridge> [teeworlds] doesn't 英国 sometimes mean England too? 15:07 < bridge> [teeworlds] If I wanted to translate this into turkish and make it abundantly clear, I would translate it from "region" instead 15:07 < bridge> [teeworlds] Oy: interesting :D 15:07 < bridge> [teeworlds] so we should really say Deutschstaat 15:07 < bridge> [teeworlds] ye, which is why the translation is just england nation. 15:08 < bridge> [teeworlds] so there is an ambiguous word that can mean both England and UK 15:08 < bridge> [teeworlds] There is no separate word for UK in chinese? 15:09 < bridge> [teeworlds] there is. 15:09 < bridge> [teeworlds] the great british kingdom 15:09 < bridge> [teeworlds] Huh, the japanese call it the "english country" 15:09 < bridge> [teeworlds] which is super long and no one say it in full name 15:09 < bridge> [teeworlds] @Learath2 think there is the long version 連合王国 15:11 < bridge> [teeworlds] 大不列颠及北爱尔兰联合王国 15:11 < bridge> [teeworlds] God I hate diplomacy 15:11 < bridge> [teeworlds] you're gonna love FOSS 15:12 < bridge> [teeworlds] "free" is another one of those words with way too many different meanings crammed into it 15:12 < bridge> [teeworlds] I wonder if there is a name for these kinds of words 15:12 < bridge> [teeworlds] there is 15:13 < bridge> [teeworlds] polysemic? 15:13 < bridge> [teeworlds] "A polyseme is a word or phrase with different, but related senses" 15:13 < bridge> [teeworlds] btw who found out the "play game" and "play demo" need different context. cuz that saved chinese translation as well. 15:14 < bridge> [teeworlds] *raises hand* (I think) 15:14 < bridge> [teeworlds] it is different in french too 15:14 < bridge> [teeworlds] yeah 15:14 < bridge> [teeworlds] cool 15:21 < bridge> [teeworlds] Huh, didn't think it would be different in french 15:21 < bridge> [teeworlds] I'm not sure now 15:21 < bridge> [teeworlds] I thought jouer goes for both "playing a movie" and "playing a game" 15:22 < bridge> [teeworlds] yeah I'm doubting 15:22 < bridge> [teeworlds] (Though my fluency in french is really questionable so I'm not to be trusted 😛 ) 15:22 < bridge> [teeworlds] so is mine 15:22 < bridge> [teeworlds] i guess depends on whether it is you click something to play something, or something is playing something as a tool. 15:23 < bridge> [teeworlds] uh 15:24 < bridge> [teeworlds] i'm guessing. i know nothing about french :P 15:25 < Oy> different in german too 15:26 < bridge> [teeworlds] It's different in turkish. "Oynat" for play as in play the movie, "oyna" for play as in play the game 15:26 < bridge> [teeworlds] that's so similar 15:27 < bridge> [teeworlds] for two different meaning 15:28 < bridge> [teeworlds] I think @TsFreddie is right for french, playing music means actively making the music 15:28 < bridge> [teeworlds] woah. 15:28 < bridge> [teeworlds] Well both are derived from "Oyun" which means game. Modern turkish is heavily inspired by french 15:30 < bridge> [teeworlds] interesting. we use completely different word for playing movie vs playing games. i imagine japanese is the same. 15:30 < bridge> [teeworlds] The one you'd use for a film is actually a conjugation of the one for the game, something along the lines of "to make it play". 15:31 < bridge> [teeworlds] Do tees speak a language? 15:31 < bridge> [teeworlds] I think they at least say hi when they spawn? 15:31 < bridge> [teeworlds] https://github.com/teeworlds/teeworlds/issues/11 15:31 < bridge> [teeworlds] of course there is an issue for that 15:32 < bridge> [teeworlds] an really old one too.. 15:33 < bridge> [teeworlds] I think in japanese you just "do" the game but you "do playback of" the film/movie 15:34 < bridge> [teeworlds] Oh and in italian too they are completely different 15:34 < bridge> [teeworlds] i know 再生. which is always funny to us 15:34 < bridge> [teeworlds] You reproduce the movie, sound the music, play the game 15:35 < bridge> [teeworlds] well those are modern words, right, romans didn't have movies to play 15:35 < bridge> [teeworlds] The french upgraded from the weird latinisms and just uses jouer for all of them afaik 15:36 < bridge> [teeworlds] I know about 500 kanji and I still didn't know the first one :/ 15:36 < bridge> [teeworlds] french is just vulgar illiterate latin 15:36 < bridge> [teeworlds] Still so much to learn 15:36 < bridge> [teeworlds] japanese don't usually have a single meaning within a kanji right? 15:37 < bridge> [teeworlds] I'd say they do? 15:37 < Oy> romans had theatres. their kinda movies :D 15:37 < bridge> [teeworlds] it's the combination that tweaks the meaning 15:37 < bridge> [teeworlds] It's quite odd, they do have multiple meanings but also a "principal" meaning 15:37 < bridge> [teeworlds] right. the combination usually don't change the meaning in chinese. 15:38 < bridge> [teeworlds] unless the word is made to sound like another language, then the kanji have almost no meanings in context. 15:38 < Oy> think we don't have a sound guy. so https://github.com/teeworlds/teeworlds/issues/11 probably not gonna happen 15:38 < bridge> [teeworlds] yeah 15:39 < bridge> [teeworlds] RIP https://github.com/teeworlds/teeworlds/issues/2388 possibly 15:39 < Oy> that's why we don't have any new weapons :D 15:39 < Oy> Dune: yeah 15:39 < bridge> [teeworlds] isn't it because teeworlds is super conservative with gameplay :D 15:40 < bridge> [teeworlds] @TsFreddie become our sound guy 15:40 < Oy> that's another reason :P 15:40 < bridge> [teeworlds] emm what 15:40 < bridge> [teeworlds] I'm sure you'd figure it out 😛 15:41 < bridge> [teeworlds] we had @Fisico for a short while 15:41 < bridge> [teeworlds] i've only done 8bit sound before and they were almost random. 15:41 < bridge> [teeworlds] high pitch them and they're suddenly teeish 15:42 < bridge> [teeworlds] i do like what valve done with the two robot's voice in portal 2 15:42 < bridge> [teeworlds] i can here chinese in them sometime 15:42 < bridge> [teeworlds] hear* 15:43 < bridge> [teeworlds] to me it feels like any variation of "hou han" is valid chinese, just like any cat-over-keyboard is valid regex 15:43 < bridge> [teeworlds] and they also make sense with the pinging system which is cool. the blue one just say "there" in chinese when he ping somewhere. 15:43 < bridge> [teeworlds] I recently spoke with Fisico about the race sounds I think he said they are done only two sounds are yet to be made or something 15:43 < bridge> [teeworlds] oh, so it's intentional 15:43 < bridge> [teeworlds] @Fisico 15:43 < bridge> [teeworlds] at least i think it is, otherwise it wouldn't make any sense to me. 15:51 < bridge> [teeworlds] btw i don't really get what #11 wanted 17:49 < bridge> [teeworlds] a distinct "meh" sound on spawn