01:09 < Sajadi> Merry Christmas from Austria :)
11:10 < Dune> Merry christmas:)
21:48 < bridge> [teeworlds] <jxsl13> @whoever is working on the ddrace client, I'd like to suggest that it should not be made posisble to create a zoom client with commenting out 5 lines of code and that client having also the possibility to conceal its mouse position to a maximum of like 400, while being zoomed out(while in full static)
22:11 < bridge> [teeworlds] <heinrich5991> any particular suggestions on how to achieve that?
22:12 < bridge> [teeworlds] <heinrich5991> you can probably zoom out in vanilla client by changing one line or so
22:12 < bridge> [teeworlds] <heinrich5991> (statically)
22:12 < bridge> [teeworlds] <jxsl13> I mean you had your camera ad the zoom in zoom out buttons with a rathe rnice abstraction, that did some if player in spec check
22:12 < bridge> [teeworlds] <jxsl13> and*
22:13 < bridge> [teeworlds] <jxsl13> I guess all someone had to do was remove that check
22:13 < bridge> [teeworlds] <jxsl13> my problem would be mainly the part, where mouse position doesn't scale with the zooming
22:13 < bridge> [teeworlds] <jxsl13> making ddnet based zoom clients hard to detect
22:16 < bridge> [teeworlds] <heinrich5991> ok, I just built a zoom client with that properties (static zoom) from vanilla by changing one line of code
22:16 < bridge> [teeworlds] <jxsl13> remove dyn cam from base game
22:16 < bridge> [teeworlds] <jxsl13> 😄
22:16 < bridge> [teeworlds] <heinrich5991> didn't touch dyn cam
22:16 < bridge> [teeworlds] <jxsl13> from vanilla 😮
22:17 < bridge> [teeworlds] <heinrich5991> yes. I didn't touch dyncam while coding the zoom
22:17 < bridge> [teeworlds] <Dune> yeah can't really blame custom clients for that
22:17 < bridge> [teeworlds] <Dune> it's already scriptkiddie-level of easy in vanilla teeeworlds
22:18 < bridge> [teeworlds] <jxsl13> well, many clients were based on ddnet and the 0.6 vanilla based ones that used zoom seemed to send the scaled up mouse position
22:18 < bridge> [teeworlds] <jxsl13> and as a LOT of clients are based on ddnet
22:18 < bridge> [teeworlds] <jxsl13> might make sense to make it somewhat harder to achieve that
22:18 < bridge> [teeworlds] <jxsl13> but I sadly dunno how
22:19 < bridge> [teeworlds] <jxsl13> othe rthan what I said
22:24 < bridge> [teeworlds] <jxsl13> but as ddnet never really cared about botting and other cheats on their servers and never had to deal with them, I guess my suggestion is obsolete
22:24 < bridge> [teeworlds] <heinrich5991> ddnet has to deal with bots as well
22:25 < bridge> [teeworlds] <jxsl13> but not with zoomers
22:26 < bridge> [teeworlds] <heinrich5991> yes
22:27 < bridge> [teeworlds] <jxsl13> and I guess the only bots ddnet cared about were the ones that allowed you to finish faster?
22:27 < bridge> [teeworlds] <jxsl13> not the real aimbots?
22:27 < bridge> [teeworlds] <heinrich5991> aimbots also allow you to do this. I don't know if people have been banned for this though
22:28 < rand> m_Zoom = 1.5f; // Done ?
22:29 < rand> teeworlds code base is great
22:29 < bridge> [teeworlds] <heinrich5991> interestingly, no
22:29 < bridge> [teeworlds] <heinrich5991> I did it somewhere else
22:30 < bridge> [teeworlds] <heinrich5991> note that we've now achieved the opposite of what we wanted(?) we posted the line that you need to change (if it works, dunno)
22:31 < rand> I didn't try with dyncam though… but it becomes pointless
22:32 < rand> it could be prevented with network clip, but I'm afraid this is a feature so that entities appear smoothly on the border of the screen
22:33 < bridge> [teeworlds] <jxsl13> yeah, the clipping is there in order to compensate pings
22:33 < bridge> [teeworlds] <jxsl13> might b eposisble to send clipping based on previous mouse position
22:33 < rand> how ?
22:33 < bridge> [teeworlds] <Dune> it could be largely improved with less wide dyncam though
22:33 < bridge> [teeworlds] <jxsl13> cor direction the mouse points at
22:33 < bridge> [teeworlds] <jxsl13> or*
22:34 < rand> (about pings)
22:34 < bridge> [teeworlds] <Dune> the problem rn is that you need to clip as if the player was spinning with a full-distance dyncam
22:34 < bridge> [teeworlds] <jxsl13> like having a funnel based on your mouse direction, you point at
22:34 < bridge> [teeworlds] <Dune> that's terrible when the player quickly moves the camera
22:34 < bridge> [teeworlds] <jxsl13> normally nobody would spin at full distance and or at leats not with a high mouse sense
22:35 < bridge> [teeworlds] <heinrich5991> I do flip between right and left when I see no one
22:35 < bridge> [teeworlds] <Dune> yeah I think plenty of people would be bothered
22:35 < bridge> [teeworlds] <Dune> just nerf the distance of the dyncam
22:35 < bridge> [teeworlds] <Dune> and you mitigate the problem by a lot
22:35 < bridge> [teeworlds] <heinrich5991> or don't let cheaters dictate gameplay decisions IMO
22:36 < bridge> [teeworlds] <jxsl13> like having a funnel to the direction pointed at and a smaller(shortened) finnel to the opposite direction
22:36 < bridge> [teeworlds] <Dune> normally I'd agree, heinrich, but I think it's a win-win with gameplay there
22:36 < bridge> [teeworlds] <Dune> and it's about the only cheat vector that is undetectable
22:36 < bridge> [teeworlds] <heinrich5991> it's about as detectable as a well-coded aimbot, I'd guess
22:37 < bridge> [teeworlds] <jxsl13> well, time to marked, I'd call it is way shorter with this exploit compared to a well coded bot
22:37 < bridge> [teeworlds] <jxsl13> market*
22:37 < bridge> [teeworlds] <jxsl13> one line as you said
22:38 < bridge> [teeworlds] <Dune> doesn't matter too much imo
22:38 < bridge> [teeworlds] <jxsl13> well, guess players will have to live with dyn cam being clipped server side in the future
22:38 < bridge> [teeworlds] <Dune> that's really bad for the user experience
22:38 < bridge> [teeworlds] <jxsl13> I know
22:38 < bridge> [teeworlds] <jxsl13> I don't see any other way, tho
22:39 < bridge> [teeworlds] <Dune> imo +20% static -20% dynamic or nothing, don't hurt UX to fight cheaters
22:39 < bridge> [teeworlds] <jxsl13> basic static cam zoomed out, you mean by 20%?
22:40 < rand> just let the client send the drift (when using dyn cam) and don't do anything specific on server
22:40 < bridge> [teeworlds] <Dune> yes jxsl13
22:40 < rand> modder will be able to take account dyn cam to prevent cheating on their gameplay
22:41 < bridge> [teeworlds] <Dune> by making it look bad if you move too quickly?
22:41 < rand> and then it might be add to vanilla with a new config variable :3
22:41 < bridge> [teeworlds] <heinrich5991> or not see enemies because you flick too fast
22:41 < bridge> [teeworlds] <Dune> yeah ^
22:45 < bridge> [teeworlds] <jxsl13> well, rand, I guess zoom seems to be a big advantage on vanilla as well, not only on modded server Oo.
22:46 < bridge> [teeworlds] <jxsl13> e.g. for laser users, grenade as well
22:50 < rand> it does, but I don't fill that there are that much cheater…
22:50 < rand> maybe because of the quantity of players
22:51 < bridge> [teeworlds] <jxsl13> well, you are on 0.7
22:51 < rand> less players, less cheaters
22:51 < bridge> [teeworlds] <jxsl13> now?
22:51 < rand> ofc
22:51 < bridge> [teeworlds] <jxsl13> 0.7 is damn young in tw time
23:58 < bridge> [teeworlds] <ChillerDragon> I think newer ddnet clients are sending their zoom level @jxsl13 or at least that was planned