16:16 < rand> Dune : you felt wrong, and I might did too, the pic was to illustrate a wider view while being playable and nice (basically 2 times larger)
16:17 < rand> and since the pic is static, I added that It does nt show the whole map thanks to network clipping that mitigates the "cheat"
16:18 < rand> finally, this is exactly the example of what you call a stable dynamic camera in all directions
16:19 < rand> iirc, with a zoom around 1.4, the screen starts to be bigger than the clipped view
16:20 < rand> but it is a huge addition in terms of information on the map since you can see player arriving farther, and then anticipate a bit more
16:21 < Dune> yes, all that I agree with
16:21 < Dune> but I don't understand where your point is, then
16:21 < Dune> it seems it was not meant as a counterpoint, at least?
16:21 < rand> I was adding elements :)
16:21 < Dune> ah, my bad then :)
16:23 < rand> it was not that clear from my messages ^^'
16:24 < Dune> so what's your opinion on the current state of FoV?
16:26 < rand> current is fine by me, I played with dynamic camera as a beginner and I played without now while being beaten by players using it
16:27 < rand> since any player can use dynamic camera to get maximum information, everyone are equals
16:27 < rand> we can't prevent all cheats any way
16:28 < Dune> this isn't really about dynamic camera though to me
16:28 < rand> or we can adapt network clip to dynamic camera, not sure it is a good idea
16:28 < rand> about the possibility for race/etc, it could be an addition
16:29 < rand> but, it is part of the game not to see everything on the map
16:29 < Dune> yeah of course
16:29 < Dune> players got to a speed where rocket jumping without knowing the map well kinda sucks
16:29 < rand> the map is discovered, then the player learns the details
16:30 < rand> and finally can play almost without looking the screen
16:37 < day> dyn cam is a plain cheat imho
16:38 < day> or rather changing the camera to fixed is self applying a malus to oneself. dyn just feels so bad that i cant stand it
16:41 < Dune> I have wet dreams of player friendlier mechanics. Bullet reloading could be less tedious and demanding as well imho :/
16:43 < day> main grudge i have is that the game rewards defensive nade spam way too much
16:43 < day> past a certain skill level it is down to luck to capture a flag carrier
16:45 < day> this may not be an issue in competitive 3v3 or 5v5 with coordinated teamplay but i dont think teeworlds has the luxury of catering to that crowd :P
16:46 < Dune> yeah well ctf5 feels like "play TDM in the middle part and shoot at the flagger if you randomly meet him" 
16:46 < Dune> dying from grenades thrown back gets old after 4min of killing no one
16:47 < day> yeah they need to stumble into you while you have full armor and a shotgun
16:47 < Dune> exactly yeah
16:47 < Dune> does not apply if you're in the very top of the players though, where you can outmove the flagger
16:47 < day> i think the nades need a serious spamability nerf
16:48 < day> you cant outmove the flagger 1v1
16:48 < day> he has free movement while the chaser doesnt thanks to nade area denial
16:52 < Dune> I guess you're supposed to gang up on flaggers and not be 1v1
16:53 < day> just a thought, maybe the flagger could lose armor over time. e.g. after 15s you lose 1 armor/5s 
16:54 < day> with 10hp you are still somewhat beefy, but not an always 20hp juggernaut that always manages to slip away
16:54 < rand> CTDFC, capture the dying flag carrier
16:55 < day> nah not dying. his hp is unaffected
16:55 < rand> CTNFC then
16:55 < rand> the nake(ing) flag carrier
16:56 < day> nade(ing)*
16:56 < rand> maybe, kill rather than Capture, KtnFC
16:57 < rand> ending to king of the hill
16:58 < rand> CTF is a team based gameplay though
16:58 < rand> the 1o1 frustration is something that should motivate player to play with team
17:00 < rand> I admit that I'm chassing the flag carrier most of the time, and alone
17:00 < Dune> day: in some games the flagger cannot acquire armor 
17:01 < day> yeah it is certainly a map issue too
17:01 < day> and i admit i mostly play ctf5 because theres nothing else
17:01 < rand> but the frustrating part is not the nading of the flag carrier, it is the instant I succeed to damage almost to death the flag carrier and some random player kill me defending it's team
17:02 < Dune> there are issues with juggernaut-flagger-man in teamplay as well afaik, with games that last forever because flaggers don't die
17:02 < rand> ctf is played because it's easy to run away, carrier goal :p
17:02 < rand> *ctf5
17:03 < Dune> really?
17:03 < rand> even a newbie can capture if lucky enough
17:04 < rand> and there are huge corridors to get high speed
17:05 < rand> on ctf5, there is 4 different escape routes when you get the flag
17:05 < rand> while at most 2 on others vanilla maps
17:07 < day> ctf1 is quite hilarious too. you just stay top side and spam nades into the abyss beneath you while sitting on a fat stack of hearts/armor :P
17:08 < day> the revamped ctf1 map was a bit better in that regard imho, but noones hosting/ playing it \o/
17:09 < rand> this doesn't work with few players
17:09 < rand> I don't know about the revamped ctf1
17:13 < day> as i said, im mainly concerned about the pub game quality. where the 1vs1 situation frequently occurs over long periodes of time
17:14 < Dune> rand: i thought it was just because it's the only map that uses new mechanics like unhookables and death pits, and that it makes it fun
17:15 < day> the unhookable thing is super annoying too. flagger rocket jumps to the top, chaser cant follow because he can just throw nades down the wall
17:16 < rand> the error is to follow him, you cannot do better on 1v1 in ctf5 but this map is not suited for 1vs1 anyway
17:17 < rand> (and, I'm not sure ctf is playable in 1v1)
19:45 < bridge> [teeworlds] <jxsl13> first aimbot spottet on zCatch Grenade
19:45 < bridge> [teeworlds] <jxsl13> nice
20:13 < Oy> is the person around who had that problem https://github.com/teeworlds/teeworlds/issues/2263 ?
21:30 < Dune> Oy: no but it was fixed
21:30 < Dune> I just deleted the GLAPI from GLAPI void APIENTRY glTexImage3D and renamed the datasrc folder to data now its working
21:31 < Dune> (From Jay)
21:31 < Oy> huh datasrc to data? sounds wrong
21:31 < Dune> And it seems @Assa 's PR is related
21:31 < Dune> Yeah it does 
21:32 < bridge> [teeworlds] <Assa> but you build with bam?!
21:32 < Dune> He had a first workaround resulting in no successful build but no textures
21:32 < Dune> Yes it does not fix bam for sure @Assa
21:32 < Oy> that error he pasted looks like he build with gcc, would like to know the version, can't reproduce with my mingw
21:33 < Dune> Ooh didn't think of that 
21:33 < Dune> Probably best to ping him on github
21:33 < Dune> He was on irc once
21:33 < Oy> ok
21:34 < Dune> Ah the data bit is because he did not do bam content, rand helped with that
21:37 < Oy> ah ok, he just built the client or server
21:38 < Oy> as target
21:39 < Dune> Yeah 
21:40 < Dune> I thought content would be a dependency of client or server
21:46 < bridge> [teeworlds] <jxsl13> where are projectiles added to snaps?
21:48 < bridge> [teeworlds] <Assa> projectiles.cpp?
22:00 < bridge> [teeworlds] <jxsl13> hm, k xD
22:00 < bridge> [teeworlds] <jxsl13> thx
22:14 < bridge> [teeworlds] <fokkonaut> lol
22:23 < bridge> [teeworlds] <jxsl13> where are particle effects like explosions added to a snap?
22:27 < bridge> [teeworlds] <jxsl13> hm seems to be Projectile:.Tick
22:29 < bridge> [teeworlds] <Assa> particle effects are client side
22:29 < bridge> [teeworlds] <Assa> explosions on the other hand look CGameContext CreateExplosion