14:20 < Hausdorff> matricks: So, what would you do differently if you wrote teeworlds now? Would the difference have a holistic effect on its success?
14:21 <@minus> oh, he wouldn't build teeworlds at all nowadays because there's too many assholes out there that only try to destroy it
14:22 < Hausdorff> How so?
14:24 <+matricks> Hausdorff: a lot, some of the decisions are good however
14:24 <+matricks> provably not write it in c++
14:25 <@minus> what's the alternative to C++?
14:25 < Hausdorff> Rust is great...
14:26 <@minus> found the Rusticean
14:27 < Hausdorff> I wrote the first half of a multiplayer game in C++ last summer. I never want to start a project in C++ again ;(
14:29 < Hausdorff> minus: What I really want to see is a multiplayer game in Haskell, though.
14:29 <+matricks> minus: would probably write it in rust yeah
14:29 <@minus> what about D tho
14:30 <@minus> i like the lisps more somehow, Hausdorff. though i don't really know any of them to tell their benefits
14:30 <+matricks> D doesn't really offer that much over C++
14:32 < Hausdorff> minus: I feel like lisps don't offer a direct comparison with Haskell. Besides tending to be functionally oriented and inclined to abstraction, there's a lot of differences.
14:33 < koomi> Hausdorff: the hedgewars server is written in haskell IIRC
14:33 < Hausdorff> Yeah I've seen that, great stuff.
14:34 < Hausdorff> I should have said, I want to see more multiplayer games using Haskell :p
14:35 < Hausdorff> minus: Who are the assholes trying to destroy teeworlds?
14:37 <+matricks> a lot of people. DDoS attacks etc etc
14:37 <+matricks> too many assholes, ruins the whole experience of making multiplayer games
14:38 <+matricks> if I did a MP game again it would be coop
14:40 <@minus> coops are more fun anyway
14:40 <+matricks> and people seem to be drawn to maximalism which is kinda the opposite of teeworlds
14:40 <+matricks> mods made everything tedious as well
14:40 < Hausdorff> The other game I play has also "devolved" into coop play, like tw into ddrace.
14:42 <+matricks> if I would do tw again, I would probably scale it back even futher
14:42 <+matricks> no skins that you can choose, no names, no chat etc
14:43 <+matricks> just pure game
14:43 < Hausdorff> What, a .io game? :p
14:43 <+matricks> .io?
14:44 < Hausdorff> The pattern of in-browser webgames like agar.io, slither.io etc
14:44 <+matricks> oh, those games are horrible
14:44 <+matricks> tech behind them is shit
14:45 <@minus> well, they're web based
14:45 < Hausdorff> Up to diminished gameplay and terrible netcode, it's sort of what you're describing...
14:46 <+matricks> well, thier terrible netcode ruins everything. I like my polished ultra smooth gameplay thank you
14:48 < Hausdorff> I need to ask some questions about tw netcode sometime. It seems to solve some problems in my aforementioned unfinished game nicely and without much complexity.
14:51 < Hausdorff> (It's sort of tempting me to go back to working on it, but game dev is so time consuming :( )
14:52 <+matricks> you don't have to tell me that twice :)
14:52  * matricks heads home from work
14:52 <@minus> but it's sunday
14:53 <+matricks> so? :)
14:54 <+matricks> kinda working every day of the week now
14:54 <@minus> crunch time?
14:55 <+matricks> yap
14:57 <@minus> crunch time being the standard situation near the release of a game is just evidence of mismanagement
14:57 <@minus> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
15:05 < Hausdorff> Isn't crunch time when the team has a party with lots of beer nuts to celebrate how development is on schedule?
15:09 <+matricks> minus: if all variables are known from the start, it would be easy and everyone would do it as well
15:10 <@minus> sure
15:10 <@minus> but if you know it happens every fucking time you could just leave a little bit of buffer
15:11 <+matricks> yeah, and people do that, and prepare scope cuts, then sony and microsoft goes and releases new consoles >.<
15:12 <+matricks> way ahead of "schedule"
15:12 <+matricks> but I agree that it shouldn't be like that
15:12 <+matricks> and last two productions were quite good with minimal crunch time
15:13 <+matricks> also, I think one issue is that there isn't a thing such as done
15:13 <+matricks> there is always the last bit of extra polish that you can do
15:13 <@minus> yeah, there's just some bugs and an awful lot of bugs
16:47 < Hausdorff> So I cracked open my game's codebase, abandoned just shy of a year ago. Updated gcc and clang are complaining about little things in thirdparty libraries, which I'm fixing one by one ... ah, I forgot all about this experience.
16:47 < Hausdorff> matricks: What sort of studio are you working at?
20:59 <+matricks> Hausdorff: a bigger one :)