13:41 < magneticduck> anybody home?
13:41 < magneticduck> trying to figure out how to use chat on the teeworlds blackberry tablet client
15:41 < Obani> Is it possible to retrieve an embedded image from a map to the filesystem ?
16:04 < BotoX> Obani: https://www.teeworlds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=9995 tried using the search function?
16:12 < Obani> BotoX, I'm unabled to download it, is there a way to compile it ?
16:12 < Obani> (I mean there is always a way but...)
16:12 < BotoX> both windows and linux downloads work for me
16:12 < BotoX> and the source is linked
16:13 < BotoX> description says eclipse project
16:13 < BotoX> so I guess that'd be the easiest way to build it
16:13 < Obani> Well I have a problem with my web navigator
16:14 < Obani> But I think I solved it ^^'
16:14 < Obani> Thanks for the tip I'm gonna try the tool now
16:33 < Obani> BotoX, it works as hell
18:47 < Obani> BotoX, is unsigned_char still in activity ?
18:47 < BotoX> who knows
18:47 < Obani>  /are you unsigned_char N
18:47 < Obani> ?*
18:47 < BotoX> nope
18:47 < BotoX> why, is his tool not working or what's the matter?
21:39 < magneticduck> does anybody have a rough idea of how long the teeworlds development process took, from idea to launched prototype?
21:39 < magneticduck> I could probably find that in the git history if I looked hard enough
21:44 < magneticduck> oof, I guess I'll have to work
21:47 < BotoX> at least 10 years
21:47 < BotoX> oh sorry you said prototype
21:48 < BotoX> you are not gonna find anything in the commit history since teeworlds/teewars has gone through a bunch of iterations/rewrites/refactors magneticduck 
21:48 < magneticduck> ah
21:48 < BotoX> if you are looking for the guy who made it, it's mat.ricks
21:48 <@minus> git repo does include SVN history tho
21:49 < BotoX> oh wow matricks isn't here
21:49 <@minus> !seen matricks
21:49 < Nimda3> I've last seen matricks 15 days, 50 minutes and 51 seconds ago in #teeworlds saying "I call it bullshit".
21:49 < BotoX> does it include pre-0.5 code too minus?
21:49 <@minus> i unpacked releases from it once iirc and got down to 0.3 something
21:50 < BotoX> damn
21:51 < magneticduck> not a very googleable name
21:51 < magneticduck> or DDG
21:52 < magneticduck> or DDG'able either
21:52 < BotoX> magnus auvinen
21:53 < magneticduck> http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2891454/
21:54 < BotoX> yes
21:58 < magneticduck> by the way, is anybody sure why teeworlds needed a custom build system? ^^
21:59 < magneticduck> I understand the sentiment I suppose ...
21:59 < BotoX> because every build system out there is crap
21:59 < BotoX> if you are building something big
21:59 <@heinrich5991> cmake would be okay I guess
22:00 < magneticduck> cmake has been used for some 'fairly' large things
22:00 <@heinrich5991> but yea, bam works nicely
22:00 < BotoX> kinda weird working with it
22:00 < BotoX> with cmake
22:01 < BotoX> https://wiki.alliedmods.net/AMBuild is nice
22:08  * magneticduck considers just recycling the teeworlds project structure for his own, partially written game
22:13 < needs1> make does not suck that much too, git, linux kernel and a lot of other big project does use make and the makefile is still readable
22:14 <@heinrich5991> needs1: linux and git don't focus on making the windows experience enjoyable I guess
22:14 < needs1> But i guess bam have been made almost exclusively for teeworlds
22:15 < magneticduck> the need for makefile generators or more configurable build systems is pretty clear when you want to target multiple platforms or toolchains
22:15 < needs1> heinrich5991: make is available on windows as well
22:15 < needs1> magneticduck: Not that much
22:15 <@heinrich5991> needs1: but make on windows isn't nice
22:15 < needs1> heinrich5991: How is it not nice?
22:15 <@heinrich5991> ah, rather autotools on windows aren't nice
22:15 < needs1> heinrich5991: Oh yes, they sucks
22:15 < needs1> Not only on windows
22:36 <@minus> make is slow fwiw
22:39 < magneticduck> minus: how so?
22:39 < magneticduck> I mean, for what it does, I'd expect it's pretty fast
22:39 <@minus> building android with it takes about twice as long as with ninja, i've been told
22:43 < needs1> minus: This not really is fair comparison: ninja "makefile" are not human readable, they should be genarated by another program.  Hence comparing make and ninja is like comparing asm.js and javascript
22:44 <@minus> well, ninja + something on top of it, forgot the name
22:45 <@minus> ninja files are probably more readable than android makefiles
22:45 <@minus> (have you ever read those?)
22:46 < needs1> No, never looked at android makefile
22:46 < needs1> Never even looked at android source code, never even used android
22:47 < needs1> I belive tho making readable makefile for huge projects is still possible, as linux kernel and git prove
22:48 < needs1> Ah I got it, yes I do have read some ninja "makefiles"
22:48 < needs1> Never written tho
22:50 < koomi> git uses autotools and linux has its own Kconfig system
23:02 < koomi> appearently the way android uses make is slow because at the beginning they generate one huge Makefile from a lot of smaller fragments
23:03 < needs1> koomi: Kconfig is Makefile based
23:04 < koomi> I know, most things are
23:04 < needs1> koomi: And git does not use autotools
23:04 < needs1> koomi: Just plain Makefile
23:04 < needs1> https://github.com/git/git/blob/master/Makefile
23:05 < koomi> https://github.com/git/git/blob/master/configure.ac
23:06 < needs1> koomi: Kconfig is written with Makefile, so it _is_ make in all its glory
23:06 < koomi> they do the parsing in make?
23:08 < needs1> parsing of ?
23:09 < koomi> of Kconfig files
23:09 < needs1> koomi: I dont know the purpose of this file, but to build git you really have to just type "make", and it just start to build it
23:11 < needs1> koomi: Kconfig configure the build processus, somehow like ./configure will do, but after that it is just makefile stuff
23:12 < needs1> Let me double check it
23:13 < needs1> koomi: https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/kbuild/makefiles.txt
23:13 < needs1> koomi: So from what I read, Kbulid is makefile-powered under the hoods
23:14 < needs1> Hasn't really change I guess
23:18 < koomi> needs1: ok, appearently git uses autoconf as an alternative to pure make (see commit 556677)
23:18 < koomi> and yes, most configure systems work by generating makefiles
23:26 < needs1> koomi: In that case tho, Kconfig does not generate functional makefiles, just a set of "CONFIG_FOO = bar" directives, then feeded as configuration for Kbuild.
23:28 < koomi> what's your point?
23:28 < needs1> koomi: Indeed, good find
23:28 < needs1> koomi: Makefiles and make are not that bad 
23:28 < needs1> Even hand-written ones
23:30 < koomi> just for building, yes
23:30 < koomi> the hard part is configuring
23:32 < magneticduck> hey, is there a demofile of the world record for ctf5 flag run?
23:35 < magneticduck> I feel like a tool-assisted teeworlds flag run would be quite a thing to watch
23:35 < needs1> magneticduck: I remember of a forum post a while ago about improving the world record
23:35 < magneticduck> what is the record, by the way?
23:35 < needs1> Last I've hread, it was still above 3seconds
23:35 < magneticduck> boo
23:35 < needs1> something like 3.050
23:35 < needs1> But I didn't check recently, maybe there was some improvment
23:36 < needs1> Let me find out
23:37  * magneticduck considers the feasibility of demonstrating global maxima for TW fastcaps
23:37 < needs1> 3.081 by lordfalcon it seems
23:38 < needs1> Humm, I'm sure someone gets at least 3.070
23:38 < magneticduck> there's a good chance that the global maxima is some absurd accelerating loop around the map 
23:38 < magneticduck> but I'd be clueless to find it
23:39 < needs1> I personally did 3.120 if I remember correctlky on a local server
23:39 < magneticduck> I can't break 4.3 myself :(
23:39 < needs1> I'm sure Hardstyle did betyter
23:39 < magneticduck> but I don't use the trick
23:40 < magneticduck> curving around the enemy flag base hooked to the high platform
23:40 < magneticduck> I should start doing that
23:41 < magneticduck> speaking of which, how deterministic is the TW engine?
23:42 < magneticduck> does it use external random seeds for anything?
23:42 < magneticduck> in general, I mean -- the vanilla game modes
23:42 < BotoX> I think the client is using randomness for some sprites/animations
23:42 < BotoX> doubt the server is using any randomness
23:42 < magneticduck> I'm thinking about shotguns
23:42 < BotoX> nope
23:43  * magneticduck plans tool-assisted ctf5 run
23:43 < magneticduck> that sounds like a suprisingly fun project
23:48 < needs1> magneticduck: Do not use tool assisted run on public servers, this is considered cheating.  World record should stay as "human made".
23:48 < needs1> Although I curious what time you can get on ctf5
23:49 < magneticduck> a tool assisted run would be extremely brittle in terms of ability to withstand unplanned conditions, I don't think anybody's going to suffer if I use it on a public server ^^ 
23:49 < magneticduck> but I understand the TW gameplay altering policy, I definitely won't
23:52 < magneticduck> hm, what are these .gho files on race.teesites.net?
23:52 <@heinrich5991> race ghosts
23:52 <@heinrich5991> i.e. records of only the player moving through the race
23:52 < magneticduck> in the format of demofiles?
23:53 < BotoX> the race client can show "ghosts" while you race
23:53 < magneticduck> ah right, the ddrace client
23:53 < BotoX> which are recordings of your previous runs
23:54 <@heinrich5991> nah, the race client
23:54 <@heinrich5991> not sure if ddrace has support for them