18:36 < Obani> rs
21:09 < Teectac> hey
21:09 <@minus> yo
21:11 < Teectac> i've been trying to run multiple teeworlds clients on threads but it didn't work
21:12 < Teectac> am i right in thinking this is because some class instances are global and thus the teeworlds client is not thread-safe ?
21:15 <@matricks> Teectac: the componentes in the game client was lazily done as global variables
21:15 <@matricks> if I recall correctly, they should be moved into the client
21:16 <@matricks> Teectac: also, it uses opengl, which.. well, might be a problem :)
21:17 < Teectac> oh good, i've understood stg then :)
21:17 <@matricks> opengl isn't known to handle multithreading gracefully
21:17 < Teectac> i actually like global variables, why try to make everything reusable ?
21:18 <@minus> when will teeworlds use vulkan instead of opengl?
21:21 < Teectac> what's so nice abt vulkan ?
21:28 <@minus> moar performance!
21:29 < Teectac> isn't teeworlds already very fast ?
21:29 <@minus> gotta go faster
21:30 < Henningstone> only very light, but if you consider HOW light it actually is... no it's not so fast :3
21:31 <@matricks> Teectac: global variables are the horror
21:31 < Teectac> that cpu_throttle thing looks a bit hackish too
21:31 <@matricks> Teectac: just to avoid busy waits, dunno really how to solve it :(
21:32 <@matricks> Teectac: global variables that are always accessible is a real bitch when you start todo threading
21:32 <@matricks> Teectac: they are okey if they are non-mutable
21:33 < Edible> https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/4aauib/lets_talk_about_the_free_software_dating_scene/
21:33 < Teectac> yes well, its not like everything has to be potentially threadable
21:36 <@matricks> Teectac: well, it's that kinda think which is holding back the development :)
21:36 <@matricks> threading is here and it's here to stay big time
21:36 <@matricks> consoles have been hard on the threading for a complete generation now, time for PC people to catch up ;)
21:39 < Teectac> i'm not saying avoid threading, but if you don't see how you are going to need it, why bother avoiding globals ?
21:40 <@matricks> because when you do need it, it's a hell to pull everything a part
21:41 < Teectac> that's why i gave up and used multiple processes instead
21:41 <@matricks> what are you trying todo?
21:41 < Teectac> i'm still left with the memory leaks though ! 
21:42 < Teectac> hell if you do, hell if you don't
21:42 <@matricks> heh, I guess no one has done a stress test in a while
21:43 < Teectac> i'm trying to record the scoreboards
21:43 <@matricks> but why are you spawning several clients?
21:44 < Teectac> to connect to every server
21:44 <@matricks> what.. wait! connect to every server?
21:45 < Teectac> yep
21:45 < Henningstone> damn sounds this hackish >.>
21:45 <@matricks> yes, very
21:45 <@matricks> this is basiclly abuse
21:45 <@matricks> you can get the scoreboard without connecting
21:45 <@matricks> takes about 20 lines of python I would guess
21:46 < Teectac> can't say it's not hackish, but abuse ?
21:46 <@matricks> Teectac: yes, connecting to all servers with bots is abuse
21:46 <@minus> exceeding normal usage by 3 orders of magnitude
21:46 <@matricks> you probably gonna get a nice ban from minus here :)
21:46  * minus cracks fingers
21:47 < Teectac> is that what you would qualify teerank and teeworlds-stats ?
21:47 < Henningstone> they do not connect afaik
21:48 < Teectac> well i'm just spectating...
21:49 <@matricks> Teectac: you are taking up spots on servers that are ment for players...
21:49 <@matricks> Teectac: and teerank and teeworlds-stats doesn't connect to the servers
21:49 <@matricks> or well, if they do... they sould get banned
21:50 <@matricks> but my guess is that they just query the servers for the scoreboard
21:50 < Henningstone> at least for teerank I'm sure they just download the scoreboard
21:51 < Teectac> i've been spectating on full servers, it doesn't take a spot
21:51 < Henningstone> then you invented some kind of hack ;)
21:52 < Henningstone> spectators also take up a slot, at least on vanilla
21:52 <@matricks> Teectac: a server can have some extra spectator spots
21:52 <@matricks> Teectac: anyway, if you just want the scores of the servers, just query them instead of connecting to them
21:52 <@matricks> waaaay faster
21:53 <@matricks> thats what the server browser does
21:53 < Teectac> matricks: is that the default settings ? 
21:53 < Henningstone> this is how you get the scoreboard that you can see in the serverbrowser
21:53 < Teectac> but i just want endgame scores, not a random pick
21:53 <@matricks> well, that can't be done without connecting
21:53 <@matricks> and that will get you banned
21:54 <@minus> getting end scores can't be guaranteed when using the serverbrowser api tho
21:55 < Teectac> maybe that's for the better, but wouldn't you let a bot spectate to get a recording of your scores ?
21:55 <@matricks> hell no, you would increase the bandwidth usage of all servers
21:56 <@minus> ofc not, it's plain stupid
21:56 <@minus> if you want reliable scores, make it a serverside thingie/plugin
21:56 < Teectac> it's like 4kb/s 
21:56 <@minus> if you want global statistics that are approximately accurate, poll server info a couple times per minute
21:57 < Teectac> plus the bot won't stay on empty servers
21:57 <@minus> 4KB/s * 1000 servers
21:57 <@matricks> Teectac: or 10GB/month per server
21:58 <@matricks> Teectac: 10TB/month :)
21:58 <@matricks> gl hf :)
21:58 <@minus> not an issue technically
21:58 < Teectac> assuming there are ppl playing 24/7 on your server
21:58 <@matricks> Teectac: yes, still, it's stupid waste
21:59 <@matricks> Teectac: we spent significant amount of time just to get the bandwidth down, and of all the data you will be reciving, you want less then 0.0001% of it
21:59 <@matricks> it's like making a toothpick out of one tree
22:01 <@minus> ^ where was that again
22:01 <@minus> futurama?
22:02 <@matricks> I don't know actually
22:02 <@matricks> could be simpsons
22:03 < Teectac> well, i guess you'll ban that bot :/
22:03 <@matricks> yes, all the server admins will be complaining about it
22:03 <@minus> apparently it's a popular trope
22:04 <@minus> yup, it's on the simpsons
22:04 < Teectac> what abt players that might want the recordings ? 
22:04 <@minus> only the server side can record the whole game
22:05 < Henningstone> and why should anyone want recordings of games that he didn't participate in...?
22:07 <@minus> could use them to train bots
22:07 <@minus> :3
22:09 < Teectac> i guess someone will always complain
22:09 < Teectac> too much bandwidth used, we want privacy, blablahblah...
22:12 < Teectac> i'm shocked by the modapi thread for instance, there's always a d*** to tell the devs what to do
22:15 < Teectac> according to Edible, they even get the girls ;)
22:17 < Edible> wait, wha?
22:22 < Teectac> anyway, i'm betting not many will ban the bot
22:23 <@matricks> Teectac: your ip will probably be banned from the master servers
22:23 < Teectac> plus there is like 1000 servers for 90 players right now so bandwidth is not a scarce resource
22:23 < Teectac> matricks: why is that ?
22:23 < Henningstone> best idea would be to opensource the bot and spread it so that many people use it and all servers are full of bots, mhm
22:25 < Teectac> Henningstone: nah, it's not like every server admin is going to go through the trouble of setting up a database plus a webserver for this
22:25 < rand> Teectac: do you want demo or final scoreboard 
22:25 < rand> ?
22:26 < Teectac> rand: demos are relative to one single tee so its hard to record that from a bot
22:26 < Teectac> i prefer recording the scoreboards 
22:27 < rand> that's why server demo exists
22:29 < rand> i got about 1Go demo of a bot playing against another player, that's pretty uninteresting 
22:29 < rand> minus: is it possible to ban a player ip from masterserver ? oO
22:29 < Henningstone> https://www.teeworlds.com/master-bans.cfg
22:30 < Henningstone> I guess that also goes for players, not only for servers...
22:31 <@minus> rand: yes
22:31 < Teectac> matricks: why would the masterservers ban the spectating bot ? or would you do it ?
22:32 <@minus> maybe we should add a further rule for the server list
22:32 <@minus> "don't be a dick"
22:32 <@minus> but i kinda imply that
22:32 < Henningstone> xD
22:33 < rand> that's weird to ban player ip according to master servers
22:34 < Teectac> it makes sense if you want to ban bots
22:34 < Henningstone> Hm, as a player being banned it should still be possible to connect to server right? e.g. if you have the serverlist cached?
22:34 < rand> i feel like bots can change ip more frequently than servers
22:34 < rand> oh
22:35 < rand> id didn't get it in this way <)
22:35 < Henningstone> was just a though... but it would not cause any problem at all, wouldn't it?
22:36 < rand> master servers don't answer to a ban ip, but servers don't use banlist from master servers to ban player, i m right ?
22:36 < Henningstone> that is also what I was thinking ^-^ 
22:36 < Teectac> i think so
22:36 < Henningstone> wuh, serverlist cache ftw xd
22:39 < rand> store the whole list as favorites :)
22:40 < Henningstone> nah that would be much work :3 click 2000 times... have fun :P
22:40 < rand> no, it's only one python script
22:40 < rand> that is already in the repo (and few edits)
22:41 < Teectac> really ?
22:41 < Teectac> there is teeworlds internal stuff written in python ?
22:41 <@minus> serverlist stuff is
22:43 < Teectac> nice, maybe someday everything will get written in python
22:44 < Henningstone> you could actually write the teeworlds server in python ^^ but that would also be pretty much work
22:44 < Teectac> on this utopian note, have a good evening tees
22:44 <@heinrich5991> good evening :)
22:44 <@heinrich5991> matricks: btw, do you know a good buffer abstraction for rust?
22:46 <@heinrich5991> I'd like one that allows you to write into uninitialized byte vectors, slices, etc., and gives you the initialized thing to return
22:46 <@heinrich5991> e.g. read into the capacity of an len-0 Vec
23:15 <@matricks> heinrich5991: I dont, I don't have much time for stuff like that :/