00:02 < heinrich5991> BotoX: reentry guard is nothing for multithreading 00:02 < heinrich5991> it's not thread-safe anyway 00:02 < heinrich5991> it's for making sure a chat message doesn't cause another chat message 00:02 < BotoX> aha 00:03 < heinrich5991> thus recursing infinitely 00:05 < Kubi_> or i have tried to code something which returns the 2 word of your chat command. for example if you write /upgrade hammer, it would return in the next line "hammer". If someone can tell me how to, this would be enough for me :) 00:08 < heinrich5991> Kubi_: char *NextWord(char *pString) { while (*pString++) { if(*pString == ' ') return pString + 1; } return 0; } 00:11 < Kubi_> thank you! i will try :) 00:12 < heinrich5991> mh, that might be broken 00:12 < heinrich5991> should probably be a do-while loop 00:14 < Kubi_> yeah..does not work :( 00:15 < Kubi_> C2601, C2446, C2040 are the errors. 00:17 < Kubi_> http://www.fotos-hochladen.net/view/unbenanntfyjcuzbtov.png 00:30 < Kubi_> heinrich: http://s14.directupload.net/images/140609/64mhgfue.png 00:36 < Learath2> Kubi_: it looks like you are getting ahead of yourself 00:38 < Kubi_> no i dont think so ^^ ok it does compile now. but no result.. 00:38 < Learath2> well you didnt even check what the command is used for 00:39 < Kubi_> do you mean the str_comp_,,, thing 00:40 < Learath2> CCmd::Upgrade gets called with Msg. Msg isnt ever used. You created a char *Skillname; which is essentially a pointer to a char. You didnt assign anything to the pointer and you are essentially comparing nothing to "walkspeed" 00:41 < Kubi_> ow yes. pointers are my problems. didnt have that at school. 00:41 < Learath2> you should try working on something a tad bit simpler then tw 00:42 < Learath2> I did start C with tw however it was harsh and i kept asking stupid questions to heinrich fistd and GreyFox 00:43 < Kubi_> hm. yes. only "little" things are stopping my work. like pointers or so 00:44 < Learath2> well 00:44 < Kubi_> but i chose the hard(er) way. modding tw is cool ;D 00:44 < Learath2> I would start with actually processing Msg 00:45 < Kubi_> hm, but every other CCmd is with MSg 00:45 < Kubi_> why this wouldn't work with that 00:45 < Learath2> Kubi_: what file is this even ? 00:45 < Kubi_> my own created one. 00:45 < Kubi_> i think you would call this ..class? 00:46 < Learath2> and where does your file hook in to the actual tw ? 00:46 < Kubi_> src - game - server -chatcmd.cpp 00:46 < Learath2> but something has to call your file in doesnt it ? 00:47 < Kubi_> in general my chatcmds are working. only this method does not. 00:47 < Learath2> create an object from the class 00:47 < Learath2> ]call the method 00:48 < Kubi_> you mean Upgrade(); ? 00:48 < Learath2> yep 00:48 < Kubi_> and then somewhere in the class the method? 00:49 < Kubi_> ah k 00:49 < Learath2> some of the main code HAS to call your file 00:49 < Learath2> or your file is essentially orphan 00:50 < Kubi_> he? how it could be, if other methods do work?? 00:50 < Learath2> Obv something actually calls your file 00:51 < Kubi_> yes its included somewhere. my mate did this 00:51 < Learath2> It really sounds like you took this system from someone else 00:52 < Learath2> You really should try doing this from scratch so you actually know how TW ties together 00:53 < Learath2> anyways I must get going nothing I can help you figure out without having some real context on how this relates to tw code 00:53 < Learath2> and a tad bit too sleepy 00:53 < Kubi_> want to have a look in TV? 00:53 < Learath2> gn8 and have fun :) 00:53 < Kubi_> oke thanx for all 00:53 < Kubi_> gn8 00:54 < Learath2> really just get vanilla tw and try to see how it all works together tho ;) 00:54 < Kubi_> ehm 00:54 < Kubi_> :D my mod was made from vanilla 00:54 < Kubi_> never copied something 00:54 < Learath2> by your friend who hooked it in for you 00:54 < Learath2> so you have no idea how your code relates to teeworlds core 00:55 < Kubi_> hm yes, more or less its right 00:55 < Kubi_> *true 00:56 < Kubi_> can u maybe help me tomorrow with teamviewer? 00:57 < Learath2> i dont think that would help you 00:57 < Kubi_> so you mean, you wouldnt bring it to work? 00:57 < Learath2> ill be around tomorrow hilite me and will see what i can do :) 00:58 < Kubi_> hmm oke ! thanx for all 01:31 < Kubi_> someone even wants to help me ? hja 01:31 < fisted> Kubi_: teeworlds is not as small and simple as it looks like. 01:32 < fisted> you won't manage to do anything meaningful before you've got a reasonable understanding of C++ 01:32 < Kubi_> thats right yes. i want to learn c++ from tw 01:32 < fisted> that won't work. 01:33 < Kubi_> for example, i could make a stat-system which is saved in an account :) 01:33 < Kubi_> i know very basic things^^ 01:34 < fisted> so you could /not/ make such a stat system saved into an account. you could do it once you've arrived at a reasonable level of C++ competency :) 01:35 < fisted> you'd do better reading/working through a good book on C++, or even on C 01:35 < Kubi_> sorry for my english. i mean that i already made it. 01:35 < Kubi_> visit me in tw if you want. 01:35 < fisted> can i see it? 01:35 < fisted> no, i mean the code 01:36 < Kubi_> where to post that 01:36 < fisted> teeworlds lives on github.com 01:36 < fisted> if you don't have an account there, create one 01:36 < fisted> everyone modding tw has one 01:36 < Kubi_> somewhen someone told me a page where to copy the code and give the link 01:37 < Kubi_> but oke 1 mom. 01:37 < fisted> you mean kind of a pastebin? 01:37 < Kubi_> pls dont blame on me :D its made with .ini files 01:37 < fisted> teeworlds consists of more than one file, it'd be inconvenient to pastebin it 01:37 < Kubi_> hm i dont want to post my whole code there 01:38 < fisted> why would you not want this? 01:38 < fisted> this is FOSS 01:38 < Kubi_> its a closed mod :P 01:38 < heinrich5991> I might steal the well designed codez 01:38 < Kubi_> called build :D (botox hates it haha) 01:39 < Kubi_> no i dont want to be bullied for the bad code haha thats why xD 01:39 < fisted> Kubi_: so you're trying to mod garbage, okay. won't make things easier for sure 01:39 < fisted> well post whatever /you/ wrote then 01:39 < fisted> paste* 01:39 < Kubi_> 1 mom 01:43 < Kubi_> http://collabedit.com/2jbny 01:43 < Kubi_> (didnt want to install that github thing) 01:44 < fisted> you will need to become familiar with a version control system, there's no way around it 01:44 < fisted> in TW's case, that is git. 01:44 < heinrich5991> there is a way around it 01:44 < heinrich5991> I avoided it for a long time :) 01:44 < fisted> there's no practical way around it 01:45 < heinrich5991> see linus 01:45 < fisted> linus /wrote/ git 01:45 < fisted> he saw there's no practical way around it 01:45 < heinrich5991> linux managed the kernel without git before git 01:45 < heinrich5991> before bitkeeper that is 01:45 < fisted> and was it a good way to do it? if so, why did they opt for version control? 01:46 < Kubi_> soo what do you think of my code 01:46 < Kubi_> very noobish :D 01:47 < heinrich5991> checking the return vallue of sscanf 01:47 < heinrich5991> +1 01:47 < fisted> Kubi_: it's pretty gross, yes 01:47 < fisted> Kubi_: const pString; 01:47 < fisted> what is the type of pString? 01:47 < fisted> (i wasn't even aware that is legal in C++, actually) 01:47 < heinrich5991> fixed buffer sizes not advertised to sscanf 01:48 < heinrich5991> -1 01:48 < Kubi_> ehm the pstring thing was a test. 01:48 < Kubi_> never mind it please. 01:49 < Kubi_> heinrich & fisted you can edit it if you want. everyone can see it in real life i think 01:51 < fisted> Kubi_: honestly i can barely read that code 01:51 < fisted> it's gross 01:52 < Kubi_> can u give me general tips? 01:52 < fisted> please try smaller projects before you're somewhat familiar with the language 01:52 < fisted> yes. you could start with proper indentation 01:52 < fisted> then you could avoid anything non-english in your code (or else you won't be taken for serious by most people) 01:53 < fisted> then you could try to identify code duplication and extract it into separate functions 01:53 < fisted> and so on 01:53 < Kubi_> that was because i dont plan this to publish 01:53 < fisted> tl;dr: you could try and learn C++ 01:53 < fisted> even code you won't publish would benefit from most those advices 01:54 < Kubi_> this is true 01:55 < fisted> plus it looks exploitable to me 01:55 < Kubi_> does this mean it can be better ? 01:56 < Kubi_> (sorry ...my english skills..) 01:56 < Kubi_> heinrich what do you meant to my code 01:57 < fisted> Kubi_: it means it would be hard to make it worse 01:57 < Kubi_> shit 01:58 < fisted> that is the usual result of approaching too big a problem 01:58 < Kubi_> but it works fine haha :D 01:58 < fisted> stop assuming that programming doesn't require learning 01:58 < fisted> literally every skill requires some learning, programming is not an exception 01:58 < fisted> Kubi_: no it does not work fine 01:58 < fisted> Kubi_: i could pwn the shit out of that code 01:58 < Kubi_> haha ffor example 01:59 < Kubi_> would be interesting for me 01:59 < fisted> Kubi_: is there a server running that code? 02:00 < Kubi_> yes hahha :D 02:00 < fisted> where? 02:01 < Kubi_> personal comptuer 02:01 < fisted> IP? 02:01 < Kubi_> no flooding :D 02:01 < Kubi_> :PP 02:02 < fisted> stop being retarded 02:02 < fisted> i want to see your account system in action 02:02 < Kubi_> write in teeworlds kubi 02:02 < Kubi_> you will find me 02:03 < fisted> there you go 02:03 < Kubi_> what did you do :D 02:03 < Kubi_> buffer overflow? 02:03 < BotoX> >32 char username or pw I guess 02:04 < Kubi_> and u typed 33? 02:04 < Kubi_> or so 02:04 < fisted> yeah, if you only fix that, your "code" will magically become great and well-conceived 02:04 < fisted> no more need to learn c++ 02:04 < Kubi_> this was ironic? 02:05 < Kubi_> ._. 02:05 < botnik> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=._. 02:07 < Kubi_> but its working^^ no one have 32+ chars 02:08 < fisted> you don't even seem to realize the impact of what you wrote there 02:08 < Kubi_> ehm more or less. if this would be a commercial thing or so, it wouldnt be that good yes 02:08 < fisted> it's trivial to crash, and with slightly more effort (still easy) it's a textbook remote-code-execution vulnerability 02:09 < fisted> with a /lot/ of room for shellcode 02:10 < fisted> so what your code does is opening the gate for someone to go take over your machine. 02:10 < Kubi_> taking over? dont overdo it :D 02:10 < fisted> i am not overdoing anything 02:11 < fisted> how long a message does tw allow? 500-ish characters? 02:11 < Kubi_> which opportunity does my code allow? ehm i dont knwo srry 02:12 < fisted> your code allows me to go and take control of the computer on which it runs, with little effort 02:12 < Kubi_> be concrete pls. sounds very interesting 02:13 < Kubi_> taking over my pc because of my chat lol 02:13 < fisted> that's what typically happens when people are writing code when they rather ought to be learning how to program 02:14 < fisted> Kubi_: if you're interested in the matter, read up on common techniques to exploit buffer overflows 02:14 < fisted> sometimes called stack smashing 02:15 < BotoX> >with little effort 02:15 < BotoX> well, I wouldn't say that 02:15 < Kubi_> ahh. looks conversant to me 02:16 < Kubi_> in League of Legends, a friends friend did that technique there 02:17 < fisted> BotoX: what needs substantial effort? 02:17 < BotoX> dropping a shell I guess? 02:17 < Kubi_> The field where u could write your Phone number (for banking), you had to wirte more digits than normal phone numbers have. then u got added premium points 02:18 < BotoX> actually take control of it 02:18 < fisted> and why is that? Windows NT 6.1 /64bit shellcode doesn't sound like hard to dig up 02:19 < fisted> there's enough space to put 10 payloads, which even allows for a bit uncertainity about the address to jump to (see NOP sled) 02:19 < BotoX> can you recover the teeworlds process and drop a shell which connects to you, with "little effort" 02:21 < fisted> one could probably fit a botnet bootstrap into 460 bytes ;) 02:21 < fisted> as for how difficult getting a "shell" on windows is, i'm not too sure 02:22 < Kubi_> (remembering how this discussion started with...my "creepy" tw mod :( ) 02:24 < Kubi_> anyone know how to code with XNA? 02:25 < BotoX> I guess you don't even need to recover the process 02:25 < BotoX> open shell and make connection to some server 02:27 < Kubi_> my IT-teacher told me to use XNA for my school project. because i dont wanted to work (again) with draw picture method hahahha :D 02:27 < fisted> > teachers recommending proprietary stuff 02:27 < fisted> > armes deutschland 02:27 < BotoX> haha 02:29 < Kubi_> xna is allowed for private stuff i think :D 02:29 < fisted> whether or not it is allowed wasn't my point 02:30 < Kubi_> ="geheim" / "geschützt" 02:30 < BotoX> fisted, you don't happen to know a local root exploit for freebsd 8.0 which is not http://seclists.org/fulldisclosure/2009/Nov/371 02:31 < fisted> no, i don't know one 02:31 < fisted> if i knew one i'd dump it on their mailing list ;) 02:32 < fisted> why ask? 02:32 < BotoX> would be very helpfull right now, to have root access on this thing, need to copy a bunch of servers where the ssh key is on this one 02:32 < Kubi_> he said i could use xna because it can make real "animated" games. how ever. 02:34 < fisted> BotoX: and it is legitimately yours? 02:34 < BotoX> no, obviously not. 02:34 < BotoX> it's a project which is getting shut off soon 02:34 < BotoX> and a bunch of people tries to get all the data before they close 02:34 < BotoX> mangatraders 02:34 * fisted facpalms 02:35 < fisted> i hope all the mangas get lost 02:35 < BotoX> hehe 02:37 < Kubi_> fisted what did u mean with proprietary stuff 02:38 < fisted> Kubi_: software which isn't http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/FOSS 02:38 < Kubi_> why it has to be FOSS to be good? 02:38 < fisted> and usually attempts some sort of vendor lock-in 02:39 < Kubi_> ah explains every thing 02:39 < fisted> FOSS doesn't necessarily imply 'good', however proprietary software exists mainly to make money with 02:39 < fisted> see how you are supposed to buy a new version of windows every other year 02:40 < fisted> while there is technically little reason to do so; the fundamentals of our computing having changed significantly in the last decades 02:40 < Kubi_> didnt know that. he only said i should use it 02:40 < Kubi_> fisted how old are you. your english is very well 02:41 < Kubi_> or you use some special rare word generator which people normally never know 02:42 < fisted> lol 02:42 < fisted> for instance? :) 02:42 < Kubi_> yeah really 02:42 < Kubi_> ehm 02:42 < fisted> what words didn't you understand? 02:43 < Kubi_> mom i was looking. ehm proprietary for example. i had to transate it 02:43 < Kubi_> *translate 02:43 < fisted> it translates to Proprietaer... ;) 02:43 < fisted> but yeah it's not the most commonly known word 02:43 < BotoX> Arbeit macht frei 02:43 < Kubi_> hahaha 02:43 < Kubi_> :D 02:43 < Kubi_> in german i never heard of it too 02:44 < Kubi_> do we have some kind of einstein. only in linguistic talent and IT ? xd 02:45 < Kubi_> *only with ling... 02:45 < fisted> you really only notice proprietary software once you're outside proprietary IT world 02:45 < fisted> it's kind of as if you'd been unplugged from the matrix ;) 02:48 < Kubi_> first i have to be plugged into a duden to understand these words. then maybe i could exit your matrix 02:48 < Kubi_> tell me how old -(Messlatte)- :D 02:48 < fisted> proprietary = belonging to someone, to put it very bluntly 02:49 < Kubi_> yes i know. how i told i googled it before 02:49 < Kubi_> :P 02:49 < fisted> but the remaining words of my two messages were easy :) 02:50 < Kubi_> ^^ 02:50 < Kubi_> how ever# 02:50 < Kubi_> answer my question pls :D wont harm you - i think - :D 02:51 < fisted> sigh 02:51 < fisted> i'm 28 02:51 < fisted> probably twice your age 02:51 < fisted> :P 02:52 < BotoX> hopefully 02:53 < Kubi_> im not 14 :P 02:53 < Kubi_> but it was near to that age yes 02:54 < fisted> well you must at least be 10 seeing that you have mastered division of numbers :) 02:54 < Kubi_> agree :D 02:54 < BotoX> If he was brave enough to give away his age after you asked him, you might aswell do so too. 02:54 < Kubi_> i have to be the same age like botox ^^ 02:54 < BotoX> pls no 02:55 < fisted> :D 02:55 < Kubi_> sry botox but i dont have "instant think - type - (correct) and answer skills" :D 02:55 < BotoX> aha. 02:55 < Kubi_> i am 17 :D 02:56 < BotoX> Oh dear. I am too. 02:56 < Kubi_> how i told :D 02:56 < Kubi_> i know you hehe ^^ 02:57 < Kubi_> pedo action :D 02:57 * BotoX hides 02:57 < Kubi_> free rape :D 02:57 * fisted stares 02:57 < Kubi_> i will rape your codes :D 02:57 < Kubi_> hahahah 02:58 < fisted> since you're refusing to learn C++, i'm confident that won't happen :) 02:58 < BotoX> le master trolle :^) 02:58 < Kubi_> i've never refused it 02:59 < BotoX> http://www.tbi.univie.ac.at/~pmg/tutorials/tmp/cppkursunimarburg/ 02:59 < fisted> you're implicitly refusing it by trying to mod tw instead of learning C++ 02:59 < BotoX> That's how I began, pretty much. 02:59 < Kubi_> you sent me that (thanks again) 03:00 < Kubi_> fisted: i was starting modding tw to get a picture again 03:00 < Kubi_> ups. 03:01 < Kubi_> erase that again xd 03:01 * BotoX ♫ nervous_testpilot ♫ Frozen Synapse Red #02 ♫ nervous_testpilot ♫ My Beautiful Escape [1:30/5:55] 03:02 < BotoX> this song is really nice 03:02 < Kubi_> *to get a "picture" of c++. 03:02 < fisted> Kubi_: c++ is such complicated a language that that approach is doomed to fail, is what i'm trying to convey the whole time :) 03:03 < fisted> i think the problem is that TW looks so simple :) 03:04 < fisted> it's not. it's a chunk of >50.000 lines of code 03:04 < Kubi_> i know, you told me that too, even before i posted my code 03:04 < Kubi_> no lol. tw killed me nearly as i saw it the first time. 03:04 < Kubi_> 1. because i was only scripting with AutoIT at that time 03:05 < Kubi_> 2. because i never coded such complicated things. 03:05 < Kubi_> but we are learning c# at school. it is helping me a lot 03:05 < fisted> but throwing yourself unprepared at such complicated things is not going to make you learn coding such complicated things 03:06 < fisted> C# is a toy compared with C++ 03:06 < Kubi_> c# and c++ have numerous similarities. 03:06 < BotoX> in the syntax maybe 03:06 < fisted> not even that, really 03:07 < fisted> c# and java are the "similar" languages 03:07 < fisted> the similarity in C# and C++ is that both have a C in the name 03:07 < fisted> which is obviously a marketing trick 03:07 < BotoX> yeah, true 03:07 < BotoX> the real name is MS Java 03:07 < fisted> heh indeed 03:07 < fisted> MS Java.NET 03:08 < fisted> such fancy proprietary technologies 03:08 < fisted> it's good we have 'em 03:08 < BotoX> lol 03:08 < Kubi_> lol ms java 03:08 < Kubi_> i mean the really basic things like creating methods or so 03:09 < Kubi_> dont know in what "level" you thought about 03:09 < BotoX> their server is so slow that analyzing data on it is slower than packing it, downloading it to mine, unpack it and load it into MariaDB is faster 03:10 < fisted> well in C++ you have methods, virtual methods, static methods, polymorphic methods, protected methods, private methods, public methods, friend methods, uhm.. 03:10 < fisted> anything i missed? 03:10 < fisted> --> not basic in C++ 03:11 < BotoX> overloaded methods, templates? 03:11 < BotoX> templates really are a nice thing though 03:11 < Kubi_> i was raped 03:11 < Kubi_> * i got raped 03:12 < fisted> BotoX: haha yeah especially when you're profiling :D 03:12 < Kubi_> in c# you have virtual, private methods too 03:12 < fisted> lemme dig up an image i mage yesterday 03:12 < fisted> http://penenen.de/fagbnc.png 03:13 < Kubi_> the fck is taht 03:13 < BotoX> all this std: 03:13 < BotoX> holy fuck 03:14 < BotoX> I see you're making an IRC bouncer? 03:14 < Kubi_> "sexuell transmitted disease" xD 03:14 < fisted> BotoX: "jein" 03:14 < Kubi_> :P 03:14 < BotoX> teeworlds bouncer? :O 03:15 < fisted> it's reminiscent of a BNC but it has a different purpose (and i've "finished" it years ago, anyway) 03:15 < fisted> the problem is my ISP dropping my connection every 12h 03:16 < fisted> fagbnc is between client and server, and handles the disconnect kind-of gracefully, while pretending to the client nothing ever happened, sort of 03:16 < BotoX> Ah, I see, nice. 03:16 < Kubi_> fisted you work in an IT company. i bet 10000€ 03:16 < BotoX> inb4 he is a neet 03:17 < fisted> Kubi_: i'm a heavily underpaid sysadmin (of a sweet unix/linux-only network though :P) 03:17 < fisted> it's not a company, but a university 03:17 < fisted> so you owe me 10000 EUR 03:17 < fisted> i accept bit- and dogecoin 03:17 < BotoX> >dogecoin 03:18 < BotoX> though, shit the diff is high on that 03:18 < Kubi_> "underpaid" is relative. but you have to know :) with that amount of skill you have good chances to be overtaken by a big one? 03:18 < BotoX> I remember when I was mining litecoin with captured servers, stopped after the difficulty hit 400 03:19 < fisted> BotoX: how much did it turn up? 03:19 < BotoX> like 1 LTC 03:19 < BotoX> sold it for $20 03:19 < fisted> oh, mh. well better than nothing i suppose 03:19 < BotoX> to pay my actual server :P 03:19 < BotoX> which is pretty sweet since I know a guy running a big cluster. 03:19 < Kubi_> does this things have future 03:20 * fisted got sixty-five 6-core machines at work recently 03:20 < fisted> should start a mining operation, too ;D 03:20 < fisted> enabled by dsh(1) ;D 03:20 < Kubi_> i think they were "overspeculated" at the beginning 03:20 < BotoX> well, cpu mining isn't really great 03:20 < fisted> yeah, i know 03:20 < BotoX> I was mining with a few E5s 03:20 < Kubi_> GPCPU ftw 03:21 < fisted> Kubi_: all CPUs are general purpose 03:21 < fisted> well, that might be a bit of an overstatement 03:21 < fisted> but you mean GPGPU, anyway 03:21 < Kubi_> yes 03:22 < Kubi_> am i right? 03:22 < fisted> that GPGPU ftw? no 03:22 < BotoX> Not really 03:22 < Kubi_> paralized work 03:22 < fisted> nowadays the kewl kids mine on ASIC, where possible 03:22 < BotoX> You said, "for the win", so you want ASICs 03:22 < BotoX> GPUs will not let you win, not anymore 03:23 < Kubi_> please dont overstrain my english lol 03:23 < fisted> if you know GPGPU you might as well know ASIC ;) 03:23 < fisted> it's one less letter, even 03:24 < BotoX> Application specific integrated circuit 03:24 < Kubi_> for example cuda i think 03:24 < BotoX> made for exactly one thing. 03:24 < BotoX> a lot more efficient than other circuits 03:24 < BotoX> which are general purpose 03:25 < Kubi_> specialized for 1 thing but cant do other things well? 03:25 < BotoX> they can only do that one thing 03:25 < BotoX> well, most of the time they do multiple small things 03:25 < Kubi_> and why is it bad for mining 03:25 < BotoX> huh? 03:26 < Kubi_> you said gpgpu + ftw = no :D 03:26 < BotoX> because you won't really be winning 03:26 < BotoX> since it's not efficient enough 03:26 < BotoX> to make proffit 03:26 < BotoX> when you pay for the GPU and power 03:27 < BotoX> since there are people mining with ASICs and increasing the difficulty 03:27 < Kubi_> so what will perform well? 03:27 < fisted> A S I C s 03:29 < Kubi_> hm ok. now i am a bit smarter 03:29 < Kubi_> interesting topic 03:29 < BotoX> The problem is though, that general purpose processors are mass produced 03:30 < BotoX> and therefor cheap 03:30 < BotoX> but ASICs, have to be engineered for one task and that's expensive when the market isn't big 03:30 < BotoX> it also takes a while 03:30 < BotoX> and obviously the people who produce them will rape the coin first 03:30 < BotoX> and then sell it 03:31 < fisted> but...couldn't you simply get into ASIC programming by modding a couple affordable ASICs? 03:31 < fisted> :) 03:31 < BotoX> ASIC != FPGA 03:31 < fisted> an ASIC might well be implemented as an FPGA 03:31 < BotoX> And I don't think they release the code for their ASICs 03:32 < BotoX> FPGAs aren't really that efficient 03:32 < BotoX> not for mining 03:32 < Kubi_> but isnt that true that these coin things have been to overspeculated at the beginning 03:32 < BotoX> eh, rather under 03:32 < Kubi_> (="spekulationsblase") 03:32 < BotoX> the chinese were buying them like crazy 03:32 < BotoX> and building datacenters to mine them 03:32 < BotoX> then the government banned it 03:32 < Kubi_> but they dont have any real values 03:33 < fisted> Kubi_: does your pape rmoney have any real/intrinsic value? 03:33 < BotoX> printed paper doesn't too 03:33 < BotoX> ^ 03:33 < Kubi_> yes it has 03:33 < BotoX> lol 03:34 < Kubi_> the printed money does "represent" how much gold actually the country has 03:34 < fisted> gold? 03:34 < Kubi_> yep 03:34 < BotoX> what 03:34 < BotoX> the fuck 03:35 < fisted> so whenever money is printed, additional gold reserves were aquired? 03:36 < Kubi_> the more money is printed. the more value did gold loose. 03:36 < fisted> that is called inflation and is not gold-specific 03:36 < Kubi_> if i remember true 03:36 < Kubi_> *right 03:37 < fisted> and it totally does not imply the paper in your wallet had any intrinsic value (other than the cost of paper and ink on it) 03:38 < fisted> (which is why it does not matter if you have it as cash or as a number in a bank computer) 03:38 < fisted> likewise for bitcoin. it's even wrong to say that a bitcoin has no intrinsic value, because there is no bitcoin in the first place 03:38 < Kubi_> then in your oppinion the value is the global accept 03:39 < BotoX> food has value 03:39 < BotoX> paper does not 03:39 < BotoX> at least not to humans 03:39 < BotoX> land has value 03:39 < fisted> paper can be used to make fire which can be used to make food :P 03:39 < BotoX> pfffffffffffffffft 03:40 < Kubi_> then money is only a (zwischending) 03:40 < Kubi_> :D 03:41 < Kubi_> i think the money "says" that you had changed something with real value (work, food...) 03:41 < BotoX> money gets printed 03:41 < Kubi_> and the money "saves" your work in paper 03:41 < BotoX> by the central bank 03:41 < BotoX> and everything is regulated by the world bank 03:41 < Kubi_> money is there because if you want to go shopping, you dont have to repair there something or so. 03:41 < BotoX> thus, one could say that the world bank owns everything 03:42 < BotoX> since they can just create unlimited money and buy everything 03:42 < fisted> Kubi_: usually you get your income transfered onto your bank account, with no paper being involved 03:42 < BotoX> and everyone 03:42 < Kubi_> Paper / digits. you know what i mean :D 03:42 < Kubi_> let us name it "money".. 03:43 < Kubi_> do you agree to my these? 03:43 < Kubi_> theory ^^ 03:43 < fisted> which one 03:44 < Kubi_> lol i had only 1 xd 03:44 < Kubi_> i think the money "says" that you had changed something with real value (work, food...) 03:44 < Kubi_> and the money "saves" your work in paper 03:44 < Kubi_> money is there because if you want to go shopping, you dont have to repair there something or so. 03:44 < fisted> i don't agree with the first one (although i might not fully understand what you mean) 03:45 < BotoX> I just murder someone and steal it instead, how about that? 03:45 < BotoX> Only need some weapons 03:45 < BotoX> and I can get pretty much everything 03:45 < fisted> it's even easier 03:45 < Kubi_> 1. 03:45 < fisted> say my parents are rich 03:45 < fisted> i'd get everything w/o doing anything 03:45 < Kubi_> 1. get a credit 03:45 < Kubi_> 2. buy panzer 03:46 < Kubi_> this will work 03:46 < BotoX> 3. destroy bank 03:46 < BotoX> 4. don't have to pay back credit 03:46 < Kubi_> no need for this 03:46 < BotoX> 5. ????? 03:46 < BotoX> 6. profit 03:46 < Kubi_> :P 03:47 < fisted> profit plus a nice tank to drive around, heh 03:47 < BotoX> need some fuel too 03:47 < BotoX> to drive around :p 03:47 < fisted> well.. you have a tank:) 03:47 < fisted> just "visit" the gas station 03:47 < BotoX> hehe 03:48 < Kubi_> fisted: i mean, the money you own is the evidence that u changed the money with something with a real value like work or a thing 03:48 < Kubi_> i think i can explain it physically haha 03:48 < BotoX> you can also cheat 03:49 < BotoX> and let other people work for you 03:49 < BotoX> how did bill gates get so rich? 03:49 < BotoX> did he really work that much? 03:49 < Kubi_> because he worked for microschrott^^ and not appel 03:49 < fisted> dude, copypasting QDOS was quite a big thing 03:49 < fisted> :) 03:49 < Kubi_> *apple 03:50 < Kubi_> because you cant save energy as it is, you have to convert it. and converted form is mone 03:50 < BotoX> physics 101 03:50 < BotoX> energy -> money conversion 03:50 < Kubi_> because you cant use money as it is (eat or drive with money ^°) you have to convert it to a real thing 03:51 < fisted> so you kind of agree it has no intrinsic value:) 03:51 < fisted> it's just there because it's universally accepted (well, within limits) as a means of trade 03:51 < Kubi_> yes it has not 03:51 < fisted> the same could be true for bitcoin 03:51 < Kubi_> am i right? 03:51 < fisted> which would have the nice side effect of getting rid of banks 03:52 < BotoX> and having to wait half an hour for your transaction 03:52 < Kubi_> decentralization 03:52 < BotoX> also everyone knows about every transaction 03:52 < BotoX> that shit is gonna slow down sooooooo fast 03:52 < BotoX> if it were to ever reach an actual userbase 03:53 < Kubi_> decentralization. like democracy in germany 03:53 < BotoX> and the wallet would grow into the terabytes 03:53 < Kubi_> hahahah 03:53 < Kubi_> :D 03:53 < fisted> uhm, i don't see why it would get slow 03:53 < fisted> s/wallet/block chain/? 03:53 < Kubi_> if you ever have that time (/performance) 03:53 < BotoX> yeah, the block chain 03:54 < fisted> i think there are proposals how to prune the block chain if it grows too large 03:54 < BotoX> I know there are online wallets and block chain APIs 03:54 < fisted> plus the end user doesn't /really/ need the whole thing anyway 03:54 < BotoX> yeah, just freeze it, would be an option 03:54 < BotoX> every month or so 03:55 < Kubi_> the coin story will end in a few yearrs 03:55 < BotoX> probably not 03:55 < BotoX> people have started adopting it 03:55 < Kubi_> because nobody has a use of it 03:55 < BotoX> it won't just suddenly die 03:56 < BotoX> there actually is a big market for it 03:56 < Kubi_> "calculating some shitty codes" 03:56 < Kubi_> i mean they dont make something like folding@home or so 03:57 < Kubi_> they make useless things 03:57 < BotoX> yeah, true 03:57 < BotoX> so much wasted power :( 03:57 < Kubi_> there is no transfere to a real value 03:57 < fisted> the question is whether the "wasted" power is more than the power banks and their datacenters consume 03:57 < BotoX> probably a NSA botnet to crack password hashes 03:57 < Kubi_> a german did install a coin farm inn his basement 03:57 < Kubi_> pro: bitcoins and heat 03:57 < Kubi_> :) 03:58 < Kubi_> he didnt have heizung hahah 03:58 < BotoX> A friend of mine has 600 bitcoins 03:58 < Kubi_> sell sell sell 03:58 < Kubi_> buy panzer 03:58 < fisted> baww, still has? 03:58 < fisted> sucks to be him 03:58 < BotoX> finanzamt is watching him 03:59 < Kubi_> als ob xD 03:59 < BotoX> I'm sure he sold a bunch of it 03:59 < Kubi_> that finanzamt action 04:00 < Kubi_> hurnshne. they are everywhere were they are money 04:00 < fisted> they are the /finanz/amt, duh 04:00 < Kubi_> *where money is 04:00 < fisted> ;) 04:01 < fisted> brb 04:01 < Kubi_> bb sanx 04:01 < Kubi_> finanzamt lobby xD 04:02 < Kubi_> politicsa are made by the lobbiests 04:05 < Kubi_> bb botox 15:39 < BotoX> wellp https://boards.4chan.org/a/thread/108577266/mangatraders-hacked 15:42 < EastByte> guess who's the badboy 15:43 < EastByte> oh they have your nick 15:44 < BotoX> it's not only me btw 15:44 < BotoX> not that it actually matters, an admin joined the archival channel and is willing to co-operate with the archivers 15:44 < EastByte> eh 15:45 < BotoX> the site was going down in a few days 15:45 < BotoX> then somebody donated 2.7 bitcoins 15:45 < BotoX> and kept it alive for another month or two 16:09 < fisted> wow wtf 16:09 < fisted> so you just ... happened to find a freebsd local root exploit? 16:10 < masoudd> Is there such a thing? 16:10 < EastByte> He didn't 16:10 < fisted> well he asked for one yesterday 16:11 < EastByte> ah 16:11 < masoudd> just change the init to bash. bam you have root 16:11 < fisted> >implying there's bash on freebsd 16:11 < fisted> you'd cause a panic() bro ;) 16:11 < masoudd> What ever. there's all sorts of thing you can do locally. 16:12 < masoudd> before booting I meant 16:12 < fisted> oh eh 16:12 < fisted> i presume by local he meant having a user account on the box 16:12 < fisted> not physical access 16:12 < fisted> but not sure 16:16 < masoudd> Now that would be impressive 17:23 < BotoX> had a reverse shell through a broken PHP script 17:25 < masoudd> Ahh good ol' PHP 17:25 < masoudd> And I suppose the PHP was running as root 18:04 < fisted> oh well 18:07 < fisted> i should get a freebsd box going again 18:07 < fisted> kinda been sucked into netbsd lately 18:38 < Edible> netbsd is useless 18:38 < Edible> trolololo 18:38 < Edible> fisted, why would you use netbsd, do you have some weird arquitecture? 18:44 < fisted> Edible: no, i just like the clean design 18:44 < fisted> (and i'm admin of a handful netbsd servers, which was what made me appreciate it) 18:45 < Edible> compared to freebsd whats the clean design? 18:45 < Edible> where does it differ? 18:45 < Edible> i do like the idea of pkgsrc instead of ports 18:46 < Edible> ports is just a bad idea, especially when you try to add patches 18:46 < fisted> freebsd is very well-designed, too, i don't think the difference is that large (though there's more emphasis on performance there) 18:46 < fisted> hm, yeah pkgsrc is great :) 18:46 < fisted> freebsd ports didn't cause me any major trouble either, though 18:47 < Edible> you can build from source, but can you add patches to anything without them getting destroyed on the ⏩ version? 18:47 < fisted> what do you mean 'destroyed on the version'? 18:53 < Edible> mm dont remember clearly but i think when an update to a port came it destroyed personal modifications (patches) and so on 19:06 < Edible> ⏩ that means ne xt 19:10 < fisted> i seem to lack the glyph, looks like whitespace 19:13 < Inedible> its basically the ne xt icon on media players 19:17 < fisted> and your client auto transforms literal 'n e x t' to that symbol? 19:19 < Inedible> yep 19:19 < Inedible> i think ill add more symbols 19:21 < Inedible> i kind of like it, easier reading i think. the ⌨ cant have everything 19:21 < fisted> whatever that char was, meh 19:21 < Inedible> copy paste it in browser 19:21 < fisted> i haven't heard of such a dumb irc client feature in a while, frankly 19:23 < Inedible> oh question mark you like text question mark How do you like this sentence then question mark 19:24 < fisted> question marks aren't preceeded by whitespace 19:24 < fisted> also, are you like 14? 19:25 < Inedible> they indeed arent, but it is still a word 19:25 < fisted> so what? 19:25 < Inedible> alright then 19:25 < Inedible> ohquestionmark you like textquestionmark How do you like this sentence thenquestionmark 19:25 < Inedible> is that better? 19:25 < Inedible> more readable? 19:25 < fisted> it's not a syntactically correct sentence 19:26 < Inedible> nope 19:28 < fisted> you're ignorant in assuming everyone would a) consider symbols easier to read then word, on a text medium (must be the result of user interfaces getting dumbed down a lot nowadays) 19:28 < fisted> and b) that everyone would even have the glyphs you fancy 19:28 < fisted> last but not least it gives away your general age. 19:31 < Inedible> Here fisted, take your ☂ 19:32 * fisted takes his missing-glyph-char 19:32 * fisted mutters something about retards 19:32 < Inedible> be careful with the ☢ waste though, wouldnt want you to catch anything 19:41 < Inedible> these arent just symbols, they have meaning, you look at an object and you immediately know what it is, difficult to read is going with <3 instead of ♥. its much easier to read the symbol than going "hmm i wonder what those 2 characters mean?" it is particularly terse this day and age to go X O and stuff when a symbol could deliver the same meaning 19:42 < fisted> i see how this seems preferrable to someone who has difficulties at reading 19:42 < fisted> most people don't, though 19:43 < fisted> furthermore you're assuming that your symbols would be even displayed correctly everywhere, as i pointed out a couple times now 19:44 < fisted> you're either too young or too stupid to realize that symbols do /not/ have universal meanings 19:44 < fisted> it's highly context and reader dependent 19:44 < Inedible> That doesnt matter, utf8 exist, it is a standard, fonts that dont support all of it should be tossed away or updated, 19:46 < Inedible> You're going with the "well my ASCII terminal cant display these symbols. This is a terrible idea that will never get picked up" 19:46 < fisted> it's infeasible to have "all" glyphs, especially in the light of new glyphs being added, and limited resources being available. 19:46 < fisted> furthermore a "complete" set of glyphs is quite large 19:49 < Inedible> they do, even more so because it isnt tied to one language, symbols dont need to be translated. they exist, everyone knows how a gun looks like, and so on for the majority of them. 19:50 < fisted> aha 19:50 < fisted> clearly you have a lot of experience there 19:51 < fisted> what's the meaning of the swastika? 19:51 < fisted> (there's a unicode glyph for it) 19:52 < Inedible> the meaning depends on context 19:52 < fisted> 19:44:12 < fisted > it's highly context and reader dependent 19:53 < fisted> so how are symbols universally understood again? 19:56 < Inedible> everything requires context, what are you trying to say here? 19:57 < fisted> symbols provide an additional layer of indirection 19:57 < fisted> it's sad that you don't even see the implications of your own claims. 19:58 < Inedible> what is indirection? 19:59 < fisted> in this case, when the meaning is conveyed by proxy rather than explicitly stated in the normal format of the medium (text) 20:04 < Inedible> i guess i give up, i really dont understand what you mean there 20:04 < fisted> whatever 20:04 < fisted> you'll grow up eventually, and quakenet is dying anyway, fortunately :) 20:05 < Inedible> why do you want quakenet to die? dont you like irc? 20:05 < fisted> i like IRC a lot 20:06 < fisted> quakenet is largely uninteresting and full of kids, though 20:07 < Inedible> ah alright. sounds like the place for me then :) 20:07 < fisted> enjoy it while it's still here :) 20:10 < Inedible> pedophilia ftw! 20:11 < Inedible> anyway, you did give me an idea about the whole thing. the glyphs should only be used for nouns, no adjectives 20:13 < fisted> it's against the spirit of IRC 20:13 < fisted> you can spam the AOL chat with those unicode symbols 20:13 < fisted> on IRC people tend to be more sensible and avoid nonstandard encoding where possible 20:14 < Learath2> I had to change 4 fonts to find one that actually includes all your symbols and looks decent 20:14 < fisted> (note that ascii(-ish) is the standard encoding for IRC) 20:14 < Inedible> Learath2, welcome to my world :) 20:14 < Inedible> its utf8, should be supported everywhere by now. i mean, its only 20 years old 20:15 < Learath2> totally i mean its common sense 20:15 < Learath2> A font that is supposed to include characters whould also include every possible glyph 20:15 < koomi> doesn't mean every font has all the glyphs 20:15 < fisted> what does it matter that it "should" be supported and implemented everywhere? 20:15 < Learath2> we should make utfp16 which adds drawing support 20:23 < Inedible> thats just... how would that even work? 20:23 < fisted> thats what people asked about unicode, too 20:23 < fisted> in 20 years there will be an equivalent-you idiot in some other IRC network using it 20:24 < fisted> and defending it how it should be supported everywhere by then 20:24 < fisted> despite it being a completely ridiculous feature :) 20:24 < Inedible> no need for name calling 20:26 < Kubi_> hello 20:26 * Kubi_ slaps Learath2 around a bit with a large fishbot 20:27 < fisted> no need for symbol usage either 20:27 < fisted> i feel insulted by it 20:29 < Inedible> you shouldnt be... wtf? how is that? wh...? the hell? 20:30 < Inedible> Learath2, support ascii and everything else gets drawn with libcaca. thats the way it should be 20:32 < fisted> you keep talking about how things "should" be 20:32 < fisted> it's entirely irrelevant how things "should" be when reality differs 20:33 * Kubi_ slaps Kubi_ around a bit with a large fishbot 20:33 < Kubi_> dafuq's that 20:37 < Inedible> fisted, as long as i keep using these symbols and nobody knows wtf i just typed and they start using a sane font, reality will change. thats how it works 20:38 < fisted> like you'd cause anyone to change their font 20:38 < Inedible> fisted, that is a terrible way of looking at things you know... "oh let's not talk about anything! the world is static, it never changes! lets not do anything about anything" sounds like a recipe for depression 20:38 < Inedible> fisted, yeah, agree on that one 20:38 < fisted> Inedible: look up on the concept of 'standards' when you find some time 20:38 < fisted> not only unicode is one, IRC is one too 20:39 < Learath2> Sane font ? 20:39 < Learath2> you say a sane font should include every single glyph known to human kind ? 20:40 < Inedible> fisted, do you know the history of json? 20:40 < Inedible> thats also a standard 20:40 < Inedible> look it up 20:40 < Learath2> You should try a online whiteboard 20:40 < Learath2> that is where you can draw stuff 20:41 < fisted> how the hell is json related now? 20:41 < Inedible> Learath2, i dont want to draw anything, i suck at drawing. i'm not an artist. 20:41 < Inedible> fisted, see the history 20:41 < fisted> can't be bothered 20:41 < fisted> as it's entirely irrelevant to the discussion 20:41 < Inedible> fisted, json is a standard, who made it a standard? nobody. the guy who made it just declared it a standard and people started using it 20:42 < fisted> then json is a de-facto standard 20:42 < fisted> what's your point? 20:43 < fisted> how is this in any way related to the concept of producing messages which are likely to be understood? 20:43 < Inedible> the word "standard" is hooplah, it means nothing. some people use stuff others dont. thats how things get adopted 20:44 < fisted> the gibbering of a child means nothing 20:44 < fisted> unlike standard, which does mean something 20:45 < fisted> (namely the result of a standardization process) 20:48 < fisted> wow in unrelated news, it just kind of became night 20:53 < Inedible> welp, i gotta do shit, it was nice. goodnight 20:55 < fisted> no symbol for shit? 20:58 < heinrich5991> there is 20:58 < heinrich5991> 'PILE OF POO' 20:59 < heinrich5991> U+1F4A9 20:59 < heinrich5991> fisted: :) 20:59 < fisted> can you produce one? i wonder if i have that glyph ;) 21:00 < heinrich5991> it's not even in the first plane 21:00 < heinrich5991> beyond the first plane, not much symbols are supported 21:00 < heinrich5991> no idea whether that's the symbol 21:01 < heinrich5991> because it displays as 'REPLACEMENT CHARACTER' for me 21:02 < heinrich5991> uh 21:02 < heinrich5991> did you know ASCII has a 'SUBSTITUTE' character? 21:02 < fisted> eh, no, does it? 21:04 < heinrich5991> yea 21:04 < heinrich5991> U+001A 21:04 < heinrich5991> apparantly 21:04 < fisted> wait. 21:05 < heinrich5991> (newline is U+000A IIRC) 21:05 < heinrich5991> (just if you wonder) 21:06 < fisted> i thought you were talking about an ascii character 21:08 < fisted> oh well, i see 21:08 < fisted> confusing to use unicode notation for describing an ascii char 21:09 < heinrich5991> yes 21:09 < heinrich5991> but well 21:27 < Inedible> theres also a record breaker, making csv irrelevant 21:27 < Inedible> i dont even know why csv exists in the first place 21:28 < heinrich5991> because you can't input a record breaker in a normal text editor? 21:28 < heinrich5991> (in an easy way, that is) 21:31 < Inedible> exactly, just add some macros and you're set, instead of making another format 21:32 < Inedible> ini's as well, those should be irrelevant 21:45 < fisted> someone does not understand the advantage of human readable data formats here 22:50 < Inedible> fisted, its still readable, the editor can know how to deal with the chars... 22:50 < Inedible> even more so 22:51 < Inedible> that is 22:51 < Inedible> are you trolling? 22:52 < fisted> if control characters are intermixed, it is not human readable, and throwing more complexity at a text editor is not a desirable solution to the issue 22:53 < fisted> since that will have to be replicated in every text editor which should handle such files 22:53 < fisted> note that this is then equivalent to a binary format in that it defeats the universality of human-readable plaintext formants 22:55 < Inedible> yes, we wouldnt want to complicate text editors, why dont we make everything xml and not use any other formats, human readability ftw 22:56 < fisted> binary formats have some use, but wherever possible they should be avoided, yes. pulling up XML is but a straw-man 22:57 < fisted> seeing that you talk about .ini files, i infer you're from the windows world, where concepts as clean design and modularity are not particularly widely known 22:57 < fisted> you'd do well to widen your horizon a bit