00:53 <+bridge> [ddnet] I think this wasn't an issue with old chat? 00:53 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/811747142216712202/unknown.png 11:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Learath2 I fixed all places I could where visual studio showed me a high CPU use, even the 128p translation does not loop through every client anymore on CServer::Translate(). That helped a lot already, I can join 128 clients without extreme laggs, but on the production server there are sometimes random laggs, even with fewer people (60-70). The laggs are probably caused by DoSnapshot, because it's usage goes up to 70% on my local server 11:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] So i am asking again: Would it be possible to do so? 11:28 <+bridge> [ddnet] wow, it seems like the 0.7 snapshots are way less efficient... 11:28 <+bridge> [ddnet] i am looking into that now 11:33 <+bridge> [ddnet] maybe that was also false, i dont know 12:35 <+bridge> [ddnet] You can't thread snapshots, the main loop cant just go on without snapping. You'd have to lock the main thread 12:36 <+bridge> [ddnet] You need to figure out what part of snapping is slow and fix that 12:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] You could maybe have some benefit from snapping clients in parallel but it's way more work than you'd think to get it all working correctly 12:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] All that work just to check whether it helps or not 12:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] I bet there is more low hanging fruit before that 15:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] GetItem() is slow 15:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] But it cant be optimized ig 16:00 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/811975395649519616/68747470733a2f2f692e696d6775722e636f6d2f6e756e575078462e6a7067.png 16:00 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://github.com/crev-dev/cargo-crev 16:00 <+bridge> [ddnet] lol 16:00 <+bridge> [ddnet] xd 16:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] actually a cool project 16:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] reminds me of openpgp 16:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] but for projects 19:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] Systemd update broke my laptop, sendhelp 19:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] fucking systemd-coredumpd eating 99% my cpu. Such a great service very needed 19:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] :greenthing: 19:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] Tbf my own stupidity. I just was too lazy to use gentoo on a laptop with weaker cpu 19:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] Never again I will be lazy about installing a distro without this mess 19:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] u mean u were lazy and didnt use gentoo 19:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] or u used it? 19:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] I didn't on the laptop bc it was a little weak 19:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] why u install a systemd distro if u hate it so much 19:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] linux gives u the freedom to choose 19:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] If any of you havent enabled magic sysrq, you really should btw 19:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] Got me out of this pickle 19:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] Not anymore with a majority of us deciding it's okay to let systemd be a monopoly 19:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] u still have the freedom 19:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] u just choose not to use it because u are lazy 19:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] windows users are lazy 19:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] become one with stallman 19:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] Barely have a choice. The only options with any sanity at all are devuan and gentoo 19:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] Any other I tried say they support sysv. But if you install discord or spotify it pulls in systemd lol 19:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Learath2 lets create our own distro 19:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] and make a init system in rust 19:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] :monkalaugh: 19:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] I would love to 19:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] Rust is an excellent choice for PID1 19:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] Teenux 19:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] the name 19:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] :monkaS: 19:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] For PID1 you want minimal and very safe 19:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] Pid1 goes wrong you get a broken system or a kernel panic 19:50 <+bridge> [ddnet] :monkaS: 19:55 <+bridge> [ddnet] teenux > systemd 19:55 <+bridge> [ddnet] :poggers: 19:55 <+bridge> [ddnet] learath2 > lennart poettinger 19:55 <+bridge> [ddnet] hype 19:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] learath2 > lennart poettering 19:59 <+bridge> [ddnet] my keyboard doesn't have a sysrq key 19:59 <+bridge> [ddnet] it's the print key, right? 20:02 <+bridge> [ddnet] alt-print, yes 20:03 <+bridge> [ddnet] I'm not nearly cunning enough or have marketing skills like the guy to build a cult around my product 20:04 <+bridge> [ddnet] My new btrfs based automatical backup script does the unthinkable: I just pull the usb disk, no unmounting, call me insane 20:04 <+bridge> [ddnet] and honestly I think what he does is immoral so I wouldn't really be able to do it even if I had the skills 20:04 <+bridge> [ddnet] isn't this how you get broken backups? 😄 20:04 <+bridge> [ddnet] how does the script pull the plug? 20:04 <+bridge> [ddnet] oh and that 20:04 <+bridge> [ddnet] I pull the plug :D 20:05 <+bridge> [ddnet] I decided all those filesystem and kernel engineers are putting so much thought into making fail safe (e.g. power outage) filesystems 20:05 <+bridge> [ddnet] why not just unmount if it's already idle? 20:05 <+bridge> [ddnet] someone got to counter that, right? 20:06 <+bridge> [ddnet] they can do their very best but anything that's being written while you pull it is at best suspect 20:06 <+bridge> [ddnet] and discover all these juicy bugs (with their data on the line) 20:06 <+bridge> [ddnet] I honestly would at the very least sync before pulling it 😄 20:07 <+bridge> [ddnet] It's doing a backup every hour from different machines so I really can't be sure. I wouldn't wanna have to check or boot my pc to unmount 20:07 <+bridge> [ddnet] do you have the script running on a router or sth? 20:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] Btrfs is doing all this stuff (I assume ext4 too) to make sure everything is flushed before the final reference is moved in the b-tree or whatever 20:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] on a raspberry pi 20:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] not ext4 20:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] yeah but how do you figure out if a backup is going on rn? 20:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] wdym? I don't, I just pull the disk when I' swapping it out 20:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] btrfs or ext4, which one u use? 20:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] i use ext4 20:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] btrfs, I'm slowly moving my machines to btrfs 20:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] I'm confused, why would you swap the disk out? 20:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] ext4 only has protection of metadata 20:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] i saw btrfs have a regression in speed in the latests kernels 20:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] due to bug 20:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] I always want to have one not at my place, I'm paranoid like that :D 20:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] I don't see how you would not risk atleast incomplete data 20:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Linux-5.10-Btrfs-Regression 20:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] Yeah saw that on HN frontpage 20:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] Making rounds this week was word of a "500~2000% performance regression" knocking Btrfs on Linux 5.10. 20:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] watch nasa rover 20:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] If you are plugging the disk out you HAVE to make sure it's atleast not being written to rn, btrfs' approach would only guarantee it's safe for you to unplug it while a backup isn't going on 20:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/812038419445579776/unknown.png 20:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] :poggers: 20:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Learath2 only if the backp isn't written with power outage in mind 20:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Learath2 I don't think so, yeah think of power outage like heinrich said. Nobody will every slap a "we guarantee this or that" label on it but in practice it just works 20:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] uuuh, you'll atleast lose that backup 20:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] yeah ofc 20:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] Please don't be lazy and wire a led to the raspi 😄 20:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] I'm cleaning that up the next time round 20:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] if the led is lit backup is going on 20:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] I thought about that, maybe with a button :D But I was lazy 20:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] @timakro any reason besides it being in-tree to choose btrfs over zfs? 20:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] a button to stop the backup and unmount/sync would also be very pretty 20:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] @heinrich5991 I haven't really looked at zfs 20:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] zfs is also very cute 20:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] my old nas was running zfs 20:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] (on freebsd ofc) 20:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] my nas and teehistorian storage is zfs 20:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] @heinrich5991 on linux? 20:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] yes 20:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] The features I want are atomic snapshots and the ability to transfer them incrementally over the network like with btrfs send/receive 20:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] how is the support for it nowadays? 20:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] previously on raspi 😅 20:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] yes, that plus content checksumming is also in ZFS 20:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] iirc zfs snapshots are also atomic 20:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] tho I don't use them so don't remember 20:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Learath2 not sure, it's still out-of-tree, but it's okay with archzfs 20:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] I considered linux on that NAS, then I remembered I don't really need anything from linux so might aswell be safe with freebsd 20:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] It's awesome that my windows virtual machine is backed up automatically now, also still boots when the backup was taken when it was running. And it's actually feasible now to do this. I had a rsync based solution before and you can only backup the entire image then, not only the parts that changed 20:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] @heinrich5991 Why did you choose zfs over btrfs? 20:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] because it looked maturer at the time, especially the raid stuff 20:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] more mature? idk, english adjectives are weird 20:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] I think they still say on the btrfs wiki that some raid levels are not working or "half working" ^^ 20:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] more mature sounds correct to me 20:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] "more mature" 20:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] yeah 20:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] at the very least "maturer" sounds verywrong 😛 20:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] both are right, apparently(?) 20:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] TIL 20:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] yeah dict.cc says both are right 20:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] never heard maturer 20:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] btrfs also does content checksumming, right? 20:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] I guess it sounds odd because of the ərə at the end 20:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] quitted exist 20:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] too 20:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] quitted? wtf 20:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] yes 20:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/812040946858328084/Ljha0.png 20:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] but its use is gone 20:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] @heinrich5991 I don't know 20:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] that's also something I definitely want 20:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] There is checksumming but that might be only metadata? 20:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] @heinrich5991 Just checked, data checksumming is on by default 20:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] nice 20:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] So the tricky thing about my strange backup solution was ironically to unmount the disk and also the mapper device for the luks encryption ^^ 20:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] so btrfs is zfs but made by linux aligned ppl with cool modern tech 😛 20:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] 😎 20:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] if linus approves it then its gud 20:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] Because even when you plugged out the disk it's still mounted, and to unmount it you still need to kill all processes which are writing to it, they are still writing even if the disk is unplugged ... 20:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] So I've got a udev hook to do this, but udev hooks can't mount or unmount stuff because they are in their own mount namespace 20:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] you shold be able to join different mount namespaces, I think 20:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] And the popular solution seems to be to write a systemd service which does the mounting and call that from udev to escape the namespace 20:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] they almost cancelled linus a year or so ago 20:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] ohhh right, that's why i decided against zfs 20:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] it's in linux? 20:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] or not? 20:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] idk it was weird 20:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] yes 20:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] it's "in-tree" 20:26 <+bridge> [ddnet] i.e. in the linux source code 20:26 <+bridge> [ddnet] zfs? 20:26 <+bridge> [ddnet] is in the kernel? 20:26 <+bridge> [ddnet] no, btrfs 20:26 <+bridge> [ddnet] yeah 20:28 <+bridge> [ddnet] I wonder if it's a licensing issue or sth with zfs 20:29 <+bridge> [ddnet] how it's still not in tree is insane to me 20:29 <+bridge> [ddnet] licensing 20:29 <+bridge> [ddnet] it's a GPL-compatible GPL-like license from oracle 20:29 <+bridge> [ddnet] it's a GPL-incompatible GPL-like license from oracle 20:29 <+bridge> [ddnet] ah oracle with their nasty influence over the open source world 20:30 <+bridge> [ddnet] I should move to btrfs to not support oracle stealing from the open source community 20:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] Also, you know when you are trying to unmount a disk and it doesn't work. You probably still have a shell open or smth which has it's cwd in there. There's really no way to reliably find out what's stopping the unmounting. There is like a huge list of things which can be the cause and nobody really has a comprehensive list of everything 20:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] ah actually it's the poisonous license of linux that's creating the issue here 20:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] hm, not sure which party I hate more 20:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] you mean GPL is poisonous? 20:32 <+bridge> [ddnet] I don't think either license is at fault, they're really similar 20:33 <+bridge> [ddnet] 7 20:33 <+bridge> [ddnet] A few days ago I switched all my stuff from gpl to mit 20:33 <+bridge> [ddnet] it's just that they both require freedoms to be retained in derivatives, so they're incompatible 20:33 <+bridge> [ddnet] GPL probably has some clause that doesn't even allow linking to non GPL code 20:33 <+bridge> [ddnet] because they require slightly different stuff 20:34 <+bridge> [ddnet] I guess infectious is a better word 20:34 <+bridge> [ddnet] If any part of your code is GPL all your code needs to be GPL in most cases 20:34 <+bridge> [ddnet] I think LGPL is the less anal version 20:34 <+bridge> [ddnet] You might need LGPL or something. I had GPLv3 on everything until someone who wanted to integrated my project into his complained and I realized I don't understand GPL good enough to use it 20:36 <+bridge> [ddnet] I still maintain BSD, MIT, zlib and the likes are the best choice for people that actually want their project to be used by the most amount of developers 20:36 <+bridge> [ddnet] I believe there is a point for GPL for huge projects like the kernel. With MIT, in theory someone could fork it, add a super duper feature everyone wants and distribute it without source 20:36 <+bridge> [ddnet] I wonder if GPL proponents disagree on this @Learath2 20:36 <+bridge> [ddnet] @heinrich5991 ofc they do, most people love to shove their ideologies down everyones throats 20:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] oh come on, this isn't an objective discussion 20:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] oh come on, this isn't an objective argument 20:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] Well don't they? Wouldn't you want everyone to agree with you on everything if possible? 20:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] If a person didn't think they were right they wouldn't argue their position in the first place 20:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] maybe their objective isn't "wanting the biggest amount of developers to use their project" 20:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] but instead exclude those who they think are working against their objectives 20:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] AGPL-3 best 20:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] poisen the world with freedom 20:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] poison the world with freedom 20:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] Such is the nature of open source, it is well within your right to want more than credit for your project. I just believe it's a tad against the principle of open source as I define it 20:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] :bluekitty: 20:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] Sure it guarantees a different set of freedoms, a set that I think restricts the spread of open source code 20:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] it guarantees user freedoms 20:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] i personally think all knowledge should be free and open 20:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] these science paper websites behind paywall are cancerous 20:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Learath2 it's not clear-cut without data. I'd be fine with being served some data about that 20:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] Sure, but (very subjective opinion here) I think it's mostly a secondary effect. It actually guarantees that people get to exclude people that don't think like themselves 20:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] and they dont even give a living to scientists 20:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] (due to possible second-level effects) 20:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] it guarantees to exclude the ability to remove those freedoms 20:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] It's how I believe the world works, I think people are actually extremely selfish 20:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] That's why capitalism had a very easy time permeating society 20:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] we had this convo before 20:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] we have differing welfare systems across the world 20:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] fuck the ddnet dev channel should move from discord to something proper 20:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] wdym 20:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] it's currently on IRC and discord 20:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] what's your suggestion? 20:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] (and by extension kinda also matrix) 20:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] I don't really have a suggestion 20:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] But as long as there is a bridge chances is I'm too lazy and using discord 20:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] Not only me 20:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] same xd 20:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] But as long as there is a bridge chances are I'm too lazy and using discord 20:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] Sure, but even in the most socialist societies among us people participate in the society if it benefits them if it makes them happy 20:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] I don't see this working without a bridge without excluding lots of people (that would currently be here) 20:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] Look at all the people moving from france to monaco to save their precious tax bux 20:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] I could actually join via the matrix bridge 20:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] Didn't know we have that 20:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] I use element anyways 20:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] we don't, but matrix has a freenode bridge 20:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] and #ddnet also exists on freenode 20:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] I would love to avoid discord aswell, but it's too late. Discord took over the world 20:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] will be gone in ten years, don't worry 20:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] Another monopoly we all allowed 20:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] yeah 20:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] No way 20:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] its sad ppl should use decentralized social media more 20:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Learath2 long-term bet? ^^ 20:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] mastodon etc 20:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] The NSA would personally fund discord to keep it alive, it's a massive data farm 20:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] Sure, 50e? 20:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] xd 20:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] bet a crypto 20:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] 0.0001 btc? 20:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] 50e in the future will be worthless 20:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] 😛 20:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] :monkalaugh: 20:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] if something is more volatile than euro its bitcoin 20:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] when corona ends 20:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] Centralized systems are here to stay, if anything there will be more of them in the future 20:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] massivle inflation 20:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] everywhere 20:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] It's extremely threatening to countries all around the world that people get to freely talk about what they want 20:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Learath2 we had lots of centralized systems that failed 20:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] so ten years from now, discord is smaller than it is today @Learath2? that fine? 20:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] Sure but what replaced them? More centralized systems 20:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] yes 20:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] I don't doubt that 20:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] actually about capitalism, it may look like it havent "failed" but its cuz u are kinda in the middle to good side of it 20:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] you are not getting the consequences of it 20:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] I'm just saying that discord isn't here in ten years 20:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] as much 20:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] Well sure, I think I'll take that bet. Even with it's dozens of missing features people use it, as they improve the product more would use it imo 20:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] By June 2020, the company reported it had 100 million active users each month.[26] 20:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] The middle actually got the shaft with capitalism btw. Especially in societies that produce a lot 20:49 <+bridge> [freenode] The freenode bridge is only for the dev channel? 20:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] brb eat 20:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] yes, that's correct timakro 20:49 <+bridge> [freenode] Haha, I like that. ddnet is the dev channel 20:50 <+bridge> [ddnet] Well the only people likely to use irc are the devs, so it makes sense 😛 20:50 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Learath2 so in january 2031 less than 100 million monthly active users 20:51 <+bridge> [ddnet] eh february 20:51 <+bridge> [ddnet] Sure. What is your hypothesis anyway? 20:51 <+bridge> [ddnet] my hypothesis is: centralized services come and go 20:51 <+bridge> [ddnet] they're not here forever 20:51 <+bridge> [ddnet] But why would it go away without reason? It's users adore discord 20:51 <+bridge> [ddnet] same was true for skype 20:51 <+bridge> [freenode] do you have past examples for that heinrich5991 ? 20:52 <+bridge> [ddnet] myspace 20:52 <+bridge> [freenode] Actually tab completing mentions works 20:52 <+bridge> [freenode] awesome 20:52 <+bridge> [ddnet] Mh, I don't really see how one would improve upon discord. I always saw how one would improve upon skype 20:52 <+bridge> [ddnet] I think we are at a point in technology that the improvements are no longer obvious and large 20:52 <+bridge> [freenode] Right, myspace. I also wouldn't be surprised if facebook was loosing users 20:52 <+bridge> [ddnet] Same as with other fields of science. Try finding sth new in math or quantum physics 20:53 <+bridge> [ddnet] losing* 20:53 <+bridge> [freenode] I can't see youtube going away ever 20:53 <+bridge> [ddnet] youtube will live as long as google supports it 20:53 <+bridge> [freenode] If you wanna heinrich xDD 20:53 <+bridge> [ddnet] Especially with the barrier of entry being INCREDIBLY large 20:54 <+bridge> [ddnet] Can you host 100 million users? I can't imagine anyone except the tech giants could take a task like that on 20:54 <+bridge> [freenode] Well, you can grow 20:54 <+bridge> [ddnet] Maybe another corporation that promises to be more closely aligned to governments could be funded by them 20:54 <+bridge> [ddnet] I honestly don't see how google even let discord happen tbf 20:55 <+bridge> [ddnet] It would have been sooooooo easy for them to snatch this position from them 20:55 <+bridge> [freenode] Do they have competition? 20:55 <+bridge> [ddnet] google failed like 5 social networks and fails providing a messenger 20:55 <+bridge> [ddnet] Problem with communication applications is that you need people to communicate with 20:55 <+bridge> [ddnet] It's easy to start your own communication application to "compete" with discord sure 20:55 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Learath2 legislation could break that btw, e.g. eu legislation 20:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] What is the point if my friends aren't on that platform? Same with whatsapp absolute monopoly in turkey 20:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] (e.g. by requiring interoperability) 20:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] They tried to kill it with both a govt funded app and Telegram lately with the privacy policy changes 20:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] Neither could succeed because if you can't send a message to your mother, no one wants Telegram 20:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] I don't agree that telegram is better than whatsapp 20:57 <+bridge> [ddnet] telegram does (for all intents and purposes) not have e2e encryption 20:57 <+bridge> [ddnet] The privacy policy change on whatsapp was bad enough that proper news channels suggested Telegram in turkey btw 20:57 <+bridge> [ddnet] huh, really? I thought they relied on the exact same tech as whatsapp. Is it opt-in or sth? 20:58 <+bridge> [ddnet] ouch, telegram's marketing is really nasty 20:58 <+bridge> [ddnet] that people keep believing this 20:58 <+bridge> [ddnet] telegram does not have end-to-end encryption outside of never-enabled badly working single-device smartphone-only "secret chats" 20:58 <+bridge> [ddnet] oh, and they're one-to-one only 20:58 <+bridge> [ddnet] Ah, wow that's scummy marketing 20:59 <+bridge> [ddnet] (also they roll their own crypto for client-server encryption) 21:00 <+bridge> [ddnet] They could try, but I feel it'd be very hard to get there. A lot of people oppose the government regulating markets. Most these companies get away with blatant monopolies for years with slaps on their wrists 21:01 <+bridge> [ddnet] Look at Facebook, it is no doubt a monopoly that keeps buying and buying other companies to grow their monopoly. Yet still no monopoly busting in the US or in the EU 21:02 <+bridge> [freenode] I wonder if you could get funding which such an unoriginal idea as a centralized youtube clone 21:02 <+bridge> [ddnet] timakro: well there is dailymotion out there used by 3 people 21:02 <+bridge> [freenode] Ofc, what we really want is a decentralized youtube clone but then the question is if the people funding you even know the difference 21:02 <+bridge> [ddnet] you would definitely get more funding for a centralized one than a decentralized one 21:03 <+bridge> [ddnet] im back 21:03 <+bridge> [ddnet] the old money people and big tech both hate the idea of decentralized systems as decentralization itself is against the idea of a corporation 21:03 <+bridge> [freenode] i just looked it up and it seems like youtube and dailymotion started around the same time 21:04 <+bridge> [freenode] so it's no surprise they both got funded (idk if they got funded) 21:04 <+bridge> [ddnet] (I actually tried to pitch a decentralized cloud photo storage application to some richppl before) 21:04 <+bridge> [ddnet] crypto is decentralized 21:04 <+bridge> [freenode] did you have the word "blockchain" in your pitch? 21:04 <+bridge> [ddnet] timakro: DAMN that's what I was missing 21:04 <+bridge> [freenode] then there's your mistake 😁 21:05 <+bridge> [ddnet] actually the blockchain itself is a rly simple term 21:05 <+bridge> [freenode] yeah it's two words 21:05 <+bridge> [freenode] block 21:05 <+bridge> [freenode] and chain 21:05 <+bridge> [ddnet] a chain of blocks 21:05 <+bridge> [freenode] super simple 21:05 <+bridge> [ddnet] They suggested I ditch the E2E encryption and the decentralized aspect btw 😄 21:05 <+bridge> [freenode] highly effective in business meetings 21:05 <+bridge> [ddnet] that contains the top hash of the merkle tree of the previous block 21:05 <+bridge> [ddnet] iirc 21:06 <+bridge> [freenode] how did it work Learath? 21:06 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Learath2 do u know rich ppl 21:07 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Learath2 timakro[m] have u heard of web3? 21:07 <+bridge> [freenode] i'm genuinely interested in decentralized designs. it seems like 100x more difficult to do so 100x longer until you get profitable 21:07 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://web3.foundation/ 21:07 <+bridge> [freenode] Still better chances of being successful than a youtube clone which doesn't have anything to offer over youtube 21:08 <+bridge> [freenode] imho 21:08 <+bridge> [freenode] Nope, I havne't 21:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] Well my friend who pitched it with me pivoted into a centralized non encrypted version of the idea and got his funding. I bowed out because I didn't find it interesting 21:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] ew 21:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] (and I suffer from impostor syndrome so I get really insecure when things like this happen) 21:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] hmm 21:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Learath2 just think that most programmers just know html js and css and think js is the best lang in the world 21:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] after thatu will feel better 21:09 <+bridge> [freenode] solid advice :D 21:10 <+bridge> [freenode] So it built onto something from this web3 organisation? 21:10 <+bridge> [freenode] Or was it a pitch to web3? 21:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] well a foundation is born form something that exists i think 21:12 <+bridge> [freenode] I was asking learath about his project 21:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] ah 21:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] xd 21:13 <+bridge> [freenode] Ryozuki-: I don't think the unique stuff is licensed, is it? 21:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ocykBzWDiM&feature=emb_title 21:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] they remastered 21:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] rick roll 21:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] to 4k 60 fps 21:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] humanity at its best 21:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] > Remastered music video with Topaz Video Enhance AI and RIFE (Flowframes). 21:13 <+bridge> [freenode] yeah by remastered they mean slap a ugly upscale filter on 21:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] it looks good 21:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] You can't logic away irrational feelings. I do know this 21:14 <+bridge> [freenode] No? 21:14 <+bridge> [freenode] It looks like the latest cell shading game from nintendo 21:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] ?? 21:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] It's also the reason I get very angry with people suffering from dunning kruger syndrome 21:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] gotta search taht term 21:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] People feeling so confident with their knowledge with their portfolio consisting of a single hello world program 21:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] > The Dunning–Kruger effect is a hypothetical cognitive bias stating that people with low ability at a task overestimate their ability. 21:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] ah like the russian guy 21:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] ye its very annoying 21:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] the russian guy was doing interesting things. please keep the personal stuff down 21:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] I feel like I'm inadequate for everything with my 11-12 years and here is this goof with his 1 week of experience thinking he is Knuth himself 21:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] this chat is all personal stuff since ever 21:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] okay, let me rephrase, don't put other people down in this chat 21:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] ur just biased heavily towards me 21:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] the guy doing interesting things "aka some hover effect" gives him freedom to talk shit about others? 21:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] no 21:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] it indeed does 21:17 <+bridge> [freenode] What russian guy? 21:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] timakro Bananasth on github 21:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] someone with a cyrillic nick on discord 21:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] he is obsessed in telling me i dont know how to code 21:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] several times 21:18 <+bridge> [freenode] Oh I remember some fighting a while ago -.- 21:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] point me to it when it happens (if I indeed miss it), I'll try to moderate that too 21:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] Well both you and him have personalities ranging from condescending and mean to verycondescending and verymean. So I would have probably muted you both if I cared about such behaviour 😛 21:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] timakro[m] why the m? 21:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] matrix 21:19 <+bridge> [freenode] Why does everybody under that youtube video say it looks good 21:20 <+bridge> [freenode]