01:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] @deen I have the feeling that the ddnet_properties is of limited usefulness because it doesn't have heuristics for "end of race" rooms where you get all weapons and all powerups 01:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] leading to wrong classifications 09:06 <+bridge> [ddnet] hm, right 09:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> true xd 09:26 <+ChillerDragon> hire pink rat as dev and hell write heureistics to always include weapons in the "end of race" room because there is a skip hehe 11:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] i think the most accurate classification would come from teehistorian files 11:12 <@deen> heh, good idea 11:13 <@deen> we could also use teehistorian to calculate how far in a map you are :D 11:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] It would but we'd first need tools to parse them 😛 11:13 <@deen> and even where particularly faily parts are 11:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] I really think we should have added "RACE_START" and "RACE_END" into the teehistorian format, it's sooo expensive to get this information 11:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] You need to load the map and find the start/end tiles and keep track of position 11:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] well Zwelf wrote a nice parser :) 11:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] and my map parsing tool could provide the start/finish positions, i think it could be reasonable fast 11:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] the naive approach probably wont catch all edge cases with the startline 11:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] but it would probably be sufficient to categorize maps 11:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] Not that easy, it would catch most things but to be certain you need to reimplement most of the collision check 11:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] I bet there is atleast one map that flings you thru the startline at unbelievable velocity 11:32 <+ChillerDragon> so smart @Patiga 11:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] We should give it a run before the archive grows too large 11:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] 1T is already hard to handle even with just simple filtering 11:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] i guess we could reduce it a little if we say we only take teehistorian files of maps where we have less than 100 finishes or smth 12:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Learath2 cant we just add it back and manually "insert" it to old teehistorian files or just dont? 12:28 <+bridge> [ddnet] We could but modifying our source of truth sounds like a bad idea 12:36 <+bridge> [ddnet] data analysis on teehistorian files sounds fun 12:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] running the anti bot checks on teehistorian data would be cool 12:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] u 12:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] thx 12:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] :think_bot: 12:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> :nobythinking: 12:58 <+bridge> [ddnet] I have a tool that already finds many botters in teehistorian files. `zstdcat thfile | teehistorian_audit -p - | egrep “(Syltoox|J$ON|cc)”` 12:58 <+ChillerDragon> xd 12:58 <+ChillerDragon> lmao 12:59 <+ChillerDragon> also grep -E 12:59 <+ChillerDragon> egrep is deprecated 12:59 <+bridge> [ddnet] Not like it will ever be removed, too many scripts depend on it existing and most computer people are too averse to breaking anything 13:00 <+ChillerDragon> SC2196: egrep is non-standard and deprecated. Use grep -E instead. 13:00 <+bridge> [ddnet] That’s why we have compilers made in 2020 that still supports C89 13:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] LOL 13:31 <+ChillerDragon> any hacks to debug a ci that is most likley stuck on stdin or something but its unreproducible local 13:31 <+ChillerDragon> i tried ``export EDITOR=touch yes | cmd`` 13:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] It would be cool to see the % of my ranks. Like when you're top5 it says you're within 1% of all ranks. 13:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] Same with points but only names with 1000+points get "ranked" 13:41 <+ChillerDragon> just do quiqq maffs 13:41 <+ChillerDragon> top5 -1 or mapinfo shows total 13:54 <+bridge> [ddnet] Where do I find the order of tees for strong/weak hook? 13:54 <+ChillerDragon> ok i solved it using ``bash -x`` for verbose output and realized it hang on ``head -1`` :) 13:54 <+bridge> [ddnet] (in client) 13:55 <+bridge> [ddnet] grep for `StrongWeakID`, I think 13:56 <+ChillerDragon> btw do u guys actually use grep to search src code? 13:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] I use rg 13:56 <+ChillerDragon> yea well i guess its the same 13:57 <+ChillerDragon> i just feel like ctrl+shift+f in a ide is so much faster 13:57 <+bridge> [ddnet] I use `git grep` all the time, yes 13:57 <+ChillerDragon> to search history 13:57 <+bridge> [ddnet] no ide, no vim plugins, so yeah 13:57 <+ChillerDragon> u code in vanilla vim mainly? 13:57 <+bridge> [ddnet] `time rg StrongWeakID src` 13:57 <+bridge> [ddnet] takes 50ms 13:57 <+ChillerDragon> oh no not that time 13:58 <+bridge> [ddnet] probably because your disk is slow, 50 ms sounds like a lot 13:58 <+ChillerDragon> the time to type rq and go to source code etc 13:58 <+ChillerDragon> rg xd not rq 13:58 <+bridge> [ddnet] I'm on the terminal anyway, also my typing is not that slow 😛 13:58 <+bridge> [ddnet] `git grep` takes 35 ms on my system 13:58 <+ChillerDragon> yea ok u madlads are all vim mains 13:58 <+ChillerDragon> do u use vanilla vim at work too deen? 13:58 <+bridge> [ddnet] yes 13:58 <+ChillerDragon> are u the only one? xd 13:58 <+bridge> [ddnet] no 13:58 <+ChillerDragon> lul 13:59 <+ChillerDragon> didnt expect SAP to be so nerdy 13:59 <+bridge> [ddnet] we have emacs users too, so not all vim 😄 13:59 <+ChillerDragon> i worked a bit in salesforce enviroments and ppl used web UI to code xd 14:00 <+bridge> [ddnet] Something like Visual Studio Code you mean? That's also popular here 14:01 <+ChillerDragon> no 14:02 <+ChillerDragon> well we were more on the user side so it was like using the salesforce provided web frontend (actual browser needed) to code and compile in their cloud 14:02 <+ChillerDragon> saving a file can take up to 1 minute 14:03 <+ChillerDragon> but its probably the difference of being a user vs producer of these systems 14:04 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2019 14:05 <+bridge> [ddnet] with 25% of developers using vim, you're bound to stumble upon some of them at your job, no? 14:05 <+bridge> [ddnet] hm. probably depends on the job 14:05 <+bridge> [ddnet] Well, we're as far away from the user side as you can be, so pure C++ for us, no real frontend 14:05 <+ChillerDragon> yea 14:06 <+ChillerDragon> i probably go full vim soon if i cant fix my system 14:07 <+ChillerDragon> vim, teeworlds, ssh and tmux are the last 4 programs i use e that dont crash regularly 14:07 <+ChillerDragon> i cant even open a shell without pressing ctrl+c to stop it hanging on launch xd 14:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] you might want to reinstall your packages or even the OS 14:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] it sounds like you broke something 14:09 <+ChillerDragon> yes i totally broke something 14:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] Vscode being electron based works perfectly on browsers btw. I can see this kind of “cloud” programming becoming veeery popular soon 14:10 <+ChillerDragon> yea soon laptops ship without drives :/ 14:10 <+ChillerDragon> heinrich u know some nice fix my arch cmd? 14:10 <+ChillerDragon> i would love to not reinstall all as long as i can boot 14:10 <+ChillerDragon> but reinstalling all packages does that help? 14:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] idk what you usually do 14:11 <+ChillerDragon> wdym 14:11 <+ChillerDragon> to fix or to break? 14:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] to break 14:11 <+ChillerDragon> oh me neither im innocent 14:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] do you randomly symlink libraries, for example? 14:11 <+ChillerDragon> no 14:11 <+ChillerDragon> wait how do i know if i do that xd 14:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] like some online guide tells you to do `ln -s /usr/lib/libcurl.so.3 /usr/lib/libcurl.so.4` and it works, so you do it 14:12 <+ChillerDragon> ah no 14:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] good 14:12 <+ChillerDragon> i just install some aur crap 14:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] Your shell hangs when you launch it until you hit ^C then it works? 14:12 <+ChillerDragon> yes 14:12 <+ChillerDragon> sometimes 14:12 <+ChillerDragon> then i have to reboot 14:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] Maybe a broken .bashrc? 14:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] I guess it would be good to list all files not belonging to packages in /etc /usr 14:12 <+ChillerDragon> then it hgangs on reboot until i unplug cable xd 14:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] removing unnecessary aur packages 14:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] and reinstalling all packages 14:13 <+ChillerDragon> i did not put something there i think 14:13 <+ChillerDragon> other than like some scrpts 14:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] Maybe all the cores are stuck? The default kernel is really not good at scheduling for desktop machines 14:13 <+ChillerDragon> ``pacman -Qqn | pacman -S - 14:13 <+ChillerDragon> ` 14:13 <+ChillerDragon> omg i messed up the quotes 14:13 <+ChillerDragon> that boi? 14:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] Is there some task you run before this happens that could be hogging the cpu? 14:14 <+ChillerDragon> doubt 14:14 <+ChillerDragon> its just that clang rebot pacman firefox vscode etc regularly crash freeze etc so it feels more general 14:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] can you see where they crash? 14:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] which library? 14:15 <+ChillerDragon> interesting idea 14:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] Enable coredumps if they actually crash you can check those 14:15 <+ChillerDragon> couldnt see any information on firefox 14:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] Maybe dmesg could have an insight 14:16 <+ChillerDragon> nah dmesg looks chill 14:16 <+ChillerDragon> tthats the only thing ik 14:16 <+ChillerDragon> and journalctl 14:16 <+ChillerDragon> https://zillyhuhn.com/cs/.1609852421.png 14:16 <+ChillerDragon> xd 14:17 <+ChillerDragon> oh wait nvm 14:17 <+ChillerDragon> nobody saw this 14:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] arg 14:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] Lol 14:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] don't do that 14:17 <+ChillerDragon> pst 14:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] is that a command where you read all the options? 14:17 <+ChillerDragon> found it online 14:17 <+ChillerDragon> xd 14:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] Lol 14:17 <+ChillerDragon> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Pacman/Tips_and_tricks#Reinstalling_all_packages 14:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] hm, okay, looks okayish, but I'd read all the options (like I just did) before executing random commands, especially ones that claim to reinstall everything 😄 14:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] 0.039s 14:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] 39 ms? 14:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] yes 14:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/796004936642592798/unknown.png 14:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] well the output is rly different 14:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] rg colors and stuff 14:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] i guess u can disable things 14:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] these simple colors shouldn't take performance 14:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] line counting will take some 14:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] not sure how negligible 14:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] is git grep a symlink to something? 14:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] no, implemented in git 14:20 <+ChillerDragon> git bloat xd 14:20 <+ChillerDragon> man git-grep 14:21 <+ChillerDragon> when arguments have man pages xd 14:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] Line counting should be pretty negligible 14:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] vanilla vim on a codebase with millions of code 14:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] well i guess its the only way 14:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] any tool would slow things 14:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] Grep already goes thru the lines, keeping a count of \n s should be raather cheap 14:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] rg doesn't go through lines 14:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] it only does that once a match is found, otherwise it'd need to look at every byte 14:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://blog.burntsushi.net/ripgrep/#mechanics 14:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] Eh? Can you search for a substring without scanning all the bytes? 14:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] yes 14:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] boyer-moore is the name 14:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/796006058974773278/unknown.png 14:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] if your pattern doesn't contain an x, but you read an x, you can skip the whole pattern length 14:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] (is the rough idea) 14:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] git grep is faster for me 14:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] rip 14:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] maybe git grep searches in the git datafiles? 14:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] oh maybe 14:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] That is one ugly algorithm, jeez 14:26 <+ChillerDragon> so git grep only searches current files right? 14:26 <+ChillerDragon> not the history? 14:26 <+bridge> [ddnet] `git log -Sfoo` is nice 14:26 <+ChillerDragon> ye 14:26 <+ChillerDragon> i use that all the time 14:26 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/796006776566186026/unknown.png 14:26 <+bridge> [ddnet] grep is slower 14:27 <+ChillerDragon> everytime i miss a thing in tw code cuz someone renamed refactored or removed it ``git -log -S'foo'`` saves the day 14:27 <+bridge> [ddnet] git grep may do some stuff with the git info 14:27 <+ChillerDragon> without - yee 14:28 <+bridge> [ddnet] what do the numbers mean 14:28 <+bridge> [ddnet] hook and hooked? 14:29 <+bridge> [ddnet] @deen instead of a number it would maybe be better to show some small icon near the tee indicating u have strong over it 14:30 <+bridge> [ddnet] But numbers are sexy 14:30 <+bridge> [ddnet] This is one user unfriendly solution, but we might aswell just add it to have something 14:30 <+bridge> [ddnet] numbers are fine for debug mode 14:30 <+bridge> [ddnet] but the cl_ option i think will just confuse ppl 14:30 <+bridge> [ddnet] xd 14:30 <+bridge> [ddnet] Nah numbers are nice, gives us a chance to nerd out about weak/strong if someone asks :D 14:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] a icon would do the same 14:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] if enabled only when u have strong over someone 14:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] u will also know who has strong over u 14:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] due to how it works 14:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] and its much simpler 14:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] I would like a stroke command that highlights the tees you have strong over when held 14:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] well if u mean others vs others maybe yea numbers 14:32 <+bridge> [ddnet] yeah 14:32 <+bridge> [ddnet] that seems a fine option 14:32 <+bridge> [ddnet] or just underline the nameplate 14:32 <+bridge> [ddnet] idk if we have that capability 14:32 <+bridge> [ddnet] on our text renderer 14:32 <+bridge> [ddnet] lmao 14:32 <+bridge> [ddnet] xd 14:32 <+bridge> [ddnet] And we can always have numbers for people who want to know more 14:32 <+ChillerDragon> I rly like how dj is visualized in the feet 14:32 <+bridge> [ddnet] cool 14:33 <+ChillerDragon> inst there some space left on the tee? 14:33 <+bridge> [ddnet] > Maybe the hook could change shape depending on whether it is strong or weak? 14:33 <+bridge> [ddnet] oh 14:33 <+bridge> [ddnet] this is a cool way 14:33 <+bridge> [ddnet] requires u to hook tho 14:33 <+ChillerDragon> yes 14:33 <+ChillerDragon> then its too late or uknow already 14:33 <+bridge> [ddnet] if you want to voice your opinion on the issue in a way that is not forgotten tomorrow, I encourage you to go the github PR or issue 14:33 <+bridge> [ddnet] Just randomly hooking people until you find someone you have strong over sounds meh 14:34 <+bridge> [ddnet] I already said both of these in the github issue 14:34 <+ChillerDragon> its not that we have any quality option yet 14:35 <+bridge> [ddnet] Yeah we can add this unconditionally for debug 14:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Ryozuki git grep is faster because it uses multiple worker threads 14:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] rg uses threads too 14:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] hm 14:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Ryozuki but when I'm in a team of 10 tees and I want to know if tee X has strong on tee Y, and I can't just ask people to hook each other because they might be busy in a part 14:39 <+ChillerDragon> i never was in this situation tbh 14:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] same 14:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] its usually just u and ur partner 14:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] on t0 ppl will just do the part 14:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] regardless 14:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] time rg -j12 StrongWeakID src/ 14:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] oh 14:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] this gives me 11ms 14:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] i think rg doesnt use threads by default cause it shows results in a arbitrary order 14:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] I think it does use threads by default 14:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] Does anybody have experience with embedded rust? 14:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] not really, I'm still interested in your question 🙂 14:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://rust-embedded.github.io/book/ 14:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] fast google 14:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] Maybe you've seen https://timakro.de/blog/quadcopter-programming-part-2/ 14:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] I'm curious to try out rust on this chip, there is support and a lot of great resources but I'm worried about binary size 14:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] i think u use #![no_std] 14:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] I have 64kb flash 14:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] And I've seen people complain about the small flash who you used C 14:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] And I've seen people complain about the small flash who just used C 14:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] the link i sent has info 14:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] @timakro I see. from my uninformed opinion, I'd say that it's harder to optimize for binary size in rust than in C 14:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] but note that it's uninformed ^^ 14:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] I've seen some articles where people compared the C size vs what they could achieve with Rust with all the optimization options you have but they usually ended up with 3 times the size 14:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] And I don't want to invest into this now and later end up in a situation where I just can't get my code to run ^^ 14:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] Btw I still have absolutely no idea how big 64kb is, I'm just worrying 14:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://blog.japaric.io/ 14:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] maybe this blog is nice 14:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] 64k is quite a lot, though I don’t know how wasteful rust is in that sense so maybe there isn’t much left after the overhead 14:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] It feels like in C you have to do nothing and just get a small binary in free. For Rust there are a ton of things you can tweak, a lot documented here https://github.com/johnthagen/min-sized-rust 14:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] But my real issue is that I don't have a feeling for how much 64kb is and how likely it is I run out of sapce 14:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] It feels like in C you have to do nothing and just get a small binary for free. For Rust there are a ton of things you can tweak, a lot documented here https://github.com/johnthagen/min-sized-rust 14:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] But my real issue is that I don't have a feeling for how much 64kb is and how likely it is I run out of space 14:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] It feels like in C you have to do nothing and just get a small binary for free. For Rust there are a ton of things you can tweak, a lot documented here https://github.com/johnthagen/min-sized-rust 14:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] But my real issue is that I don't have a feeling for how much 64kb is and how likely it is I run out of space 14:51 <+bridge> [ddnet] dynamically linked libc on my system is 2.1MB, so either it needs to ship a smaller std library or you need to code without most of libc 14:52 <+bridge> [ddnet] if you need to use freestanding C, non-std rust is comparable. you lose many of rust's niceties though, like its collections e.g. 14:52 <+bridge> [ddnet] There are verymicro libcs maybe rust has something similar? 14:55 <+bridge> [ddnet] hm, I don't know, but I don't think there's anything besides using just libcore (or also liballoc) instead of all of std 14:55 <+bridge> [ddnet] maybe you want to do that anyway, because the microcontroller probably doesn't give you a filesystem? see? I'm not experienced. sorry ^^ 14:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] @timakro you probably have an idea of what you need, maybe just produce a small test binary to see how much overhead you have 14:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] Him I haven't really used anything from libc so far 14:57 <+bridge> [ddnet] especially check around panics and string formatting 14:57 <+bridge> [ddnet] I guess str utilities could be useful in my C code 14:57 <+bridge> [ddnet] I think that adds a lot 14:57 <+bridge> [ddnet] e.g. use panic=abort if you don't need panics (reduces size), not sure what to do about the string formatting machinery 14:58 <+bridge> [ddnet] So usually in non embedded libc is linked dynamically? 14:59 <+bridge> [ddnet] I have no idea how it works, never looked into this 14:59 <+bridge> [ddnet] yes 14:59 <+bridge> [ddnet] In embedded there obviously is no dynamic linking 15:00 <+bridge> [ddnet] So I suppose if i included something from the stdlib it could either be statically linked or recompiled 15:00 <+bridge> [ddnet] By stdlib I mean libc 15:00 <+bridge> [ddnet] With lto and static linking you should(tm) be only getting what you used from libc 15:01 <+bridge> [ddnet] Right 15:01 <+bridge> [ddnet] "only getting what the compiler can't prove you don't use" 15:01 <+bridge> [ddnet] but I think it's rather accurate, normally 15:01 <+bridge> [ddnet] linker* 15:02 <+bridge> [ddnet] With llvm and libc I don’t think you have much to worry about. Llvm has been getting so good at internalizing functions 15:03 <+bridge> [ddnet] There are some benchmarks online 15:03 <+bridge> [ddnet] @timakro I say give it a go, even if you have to ditch the idea of using anything from rusts std you can always just link to musl and use c functions for things you need. It’d be a nice experience 15:04 <+bridge> [ddnet] It does indeed seem like 3x the size 15:04 <+bridge> [ddnet] Even after trimming standard libraries 15:04 <+bridge> [ddnet] Even after trimming default libraries 15:04 <+bridge> [ddnet] Unless you don’t want to/have the time to mess around with it. Then C and C++ are just much better choices for this stuff. Tried and true 15:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] Actually I'm not sure if this 3x number I came up with makes sense. I haven't really thought about std libs. Maybe it's more like an additive overhead 15:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] Apparently there is cargo bloat to check what takes space 15:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://github.com/google/bloaty bloaty mcbloatface, some day™ I'm gonna use it on ddnet 😄 15:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] Don’t 😄 15:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] Apparently panic and formatting machinery really take quite a lot of space in rust binaries and the former apparently uses the latter making it rather hard to optimize without losing a lot of debugging 15:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] I have no idea how debugging would work 15:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] Interesting, I thought it would mostly be the stdlib bloat 15:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] Until now I have been using gdb "remotely" using openocd 15:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] I don't even know what the technology is called 15:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] On-chip debugging I guess 15:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] Do you use gdb with rust? 15:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] Well I never gave rust much of a chance after it’s syntax and stubborn compiler left a bad taste in my mouth. But the few times I did have to use a debugger on libtw2 it was honestly a very lackluster experience. Though not too much worse than other modern languages 15:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] Sadly the further you stray from C the worse the debugging experience, even modern C++ is almost awful to look at in gdb 15:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] I have not used a debugger with rust very much; but I also experienced fewer stuff I'd usually go to a debugger for 15:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] I mostly use a debugger with C when it segfaults or I want to debug an algorithm and the formatting in C is not so good, I can't just print out all intermediary state 15:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] I mostly use a debugger with C when it segfaults or I want to debug an algorithm and the formatting in C is not so good, I can't just print out all intermediate state 15:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] I guess the latter use case could be helped if I knew gdb better 15:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] Most likely they overwrite putchar to get panic msgs and debugs off the chip. I've seen this trick used with C and printf 15:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] Intermediate state of what? Hooks help a lot if you are debugging and want to do sth every step 15:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Learath2 'stubborn' compared to C? Well, Rust for sure has nice debug messages and it does rigourous checks 15:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] ye, I don't know that stuff too well yet, so I don't even know off the top of my head how to print something every time a breakpoint is hit 15:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] Only complaint I hear around is the compile time 15:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] if you know that right now, tell me so maybe I'll have it internalized next time 15:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] ^^ 15:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] @timakro apparently you can’t really get the panic msgs at all as crafting them involves the fmt stuff. So you either get all or none. Or atleast this rather comprehensive blog post couldn’t find how to ;P 15:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] Hmm might be 15:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] I thought maybe you could get them if you can afford keeping the string format stuff in your binary size 15:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] @heinrich5991 you just define a command called hook-stop 15:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] no, without stopping, I mean 15:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] but that's also useful 15:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] like a watchpoint maybe? 15:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] e.g. ``` 15:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] define hook-stop 15:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] print i 15:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] end``` 15:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] print i; continue would work if you want to print a variable each time a watchpoint is hit 15:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] Or just continue as hitting the watchpoint should already print it now that I think about it 15:29 <+bridge> [ddnet] lldb is a little better in some of these things btw, if you want to give that a try sometime 15:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] The checks are too strict for my liking, programming in rust feels more like looking for ways to appease the compiler than actually programming 15:33 <+bridge> [ddnet] Which is great for safety. Awful for people with already low motivation, I’d rather spend my time coding than digging in documentation looking for how to get a reference to s mutable slice of a vec 15:34 <+bridge> [ddnet] Reminds me of Haskell: If it compiles, it's probably correct, no need to test. 15:34 <+bridge> [ddnet] u have to read docs for anything u dont know 15:34 <+bridge> [ddnet] u basically stated that dont know rust and need to check the docs 15:34 <+bridge> [ddnet] simple as that 15:36 <+bridge> [ddnet] That combined with the syntax being unreadable for me, means I spend more time reading docs than doing anything 15:36 <+bridge> [ddnet] how is the syntax unbearable 15:36 <+bridge> [ddnet] It’s an opinion you goof 15:36 <+bridge> [ddnet] for me it looks like c syntax with uneeded stuff removed 15:36 <+bridge> [ddnet] like () in ifs 15:37 <+ChillerDragon> c is hard to read 15:37 <+ChillerDragon> xd 15:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] well ur opinion is just "its unbearable" but u dont even provide examples 15:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] u leave no room for others to say anything 15:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] That’s also an opinion and as such there is no point arguing with it 15:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] I’m not looking for an argument? 15:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] ok i see 15:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] u want to talk alone in a public chat 15:38 <+ChillerDragon> ruby is the only readable language :troll: 15:38 <+ChillerDragon> https://zillyhuhn.com/cs/.1609857313.png 15:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] E.g. the return type being at the end makes it harder for me to immediately understand signatures 15:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] u can use return implicitly at any place too 15:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] I gave my opinion, you gave yours. Not everything has to be a discussion 15:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] i mean 15:39 <+ChillerDragon> i rage quitted hello world in rust 3 times xd 15:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] whats wrong about a discussion so long we dont insult 15:39 <+ChillerDragon> discussions are exhausting 15:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] but if u dont want to discuss now 15:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] lets end it here 15:40 <+ChillerDragon> Ryo won learath gave up 15:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] Rust gang is too strong for me to argue against, I can’t do a 5v1 15:40 <+ChillerDragon> gg 15:40 <+ChillerDragon> im on ur side Learath 15:40 <+ChillerDragon> if u join shell gang 15:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] And as with any other discussion we have here you’ll just call me a bigot at the end and stop replying so I look like an obsessed nutjob 15:41 <+ChillerDragon> lol 15:42 <+ChillerDragon> http://ww1.prweb.com/prfiles/2014/01/06/11466131/NutJob_Icon_FINAL.png 15:42 <+ChillerDragon> never heard this term xd had to look it up 15:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] idk 15:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] i just find interesting 15:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] that learath is rly nitpicky 15:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] about lot of things 15:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] and im curious 15:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] so i ask 15:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] xd 15:42 <+ChillerDragon> ur a bully 15:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] :pepe_straight: 15:43 <+ChillerDragon> > offensive slang A derogatory term for someone who is insane or psychotic. 15:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] I can tell you what bothers me, but you obviously won’t agree with them. You say you are curious but when I tell you my opinion you say I just want to talk alone 15:43 <+ChillerDragon> again what learnt 15:43 <+ChillerDragon> @Learath2 i rly admire u for using cool words 15:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] well u just took that out ofcontext 15:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] I don’t see how it needs more context 15:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] > well ur opinion is just "its unbearable" but u dont even provide examples 15:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] > u leave no room for others to say anything 15:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] this is the context 15:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] LO 15:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/796026581851177000/unknown.png 15:45 <+ChillerDragon> ?xd 15:46 <+ChillerDragon> reads like english so nice 15:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] lot of random ppl 15:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] The point of an opinion isn’t always to let someone change your mind. I just wasn’t interested in getting conversion therapy or being scolded for wrongthink there. 15:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] :POGGIES: 15:46 <+ChillerDragon> boi learath chill u give me dark vibes 15:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] 1984 vibes 15:46 <+ChillerDragon> be happy :) 15:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] wrongthink 15:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] doublethink 15:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doublethink 15:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] :monkalaugh: 15:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] You can also give your opinion and if you don’t want it discussed I won’t 15:47 <+ChillerDragon> meta discussion xd 15:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] im gay and I dont want to discuss it 15:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] ok 15:47 <+ChillerDragon> im vegan 15:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] we wont dicuss it then 15:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] Great, don’t discuss it in #off-topic 15:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] systemd is good and i dont want to discuss it 15:47 <+ChillerDragon> toxic 15:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] :troll: 15:47 <+ChillerDragon> i use emacs 15:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] i use neovim on bleeding edge commit 15:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] i use windows 15:48 <+ChillerDragon> also i think all code should use spaces as tabs 15:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] get roasted 15:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] spaces as tabs 15:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] weird way to put it 15:48 <+ChillerDragon> xd 15:48 <+ChillerDragon> for indentation then 15:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] chiller do u use vim? 15:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] do u use plugins 15:48 <+ChillerDragon> ye 15:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] How do I get a reasonable sized open source project to merge something only I need? 15:49 <+Ryozuki> ChillerDragon which ones 15:49 <+ChillerDragon> https://github.com/ChillerDragon/dotfiles/blob/master/vimrc 15:49 <+Ryozuki> or do u have a vimr 15:49 <+Ryozuki> ah good 15:49 <+ChillerDragon> @timakro disguise it as something general 15:49 <+Ryozuki> ChillerDragon here is mine https://gist.github.com/edg-l/624737e31d6e85b2385689298fcccebe 15:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] I think the lifetime stuff is what makes rust very hard to read for me. It feels like information that doesn’t belong in the signature 15:50 <+bridge> [ddnet] How do I disable those annoying discord "embeds" 15:50 <+Ryozuki> ChillerDragon did u achieve that thing i used days ago 15:50 <+ChillerDragon> so many plugins 15:50 <+Ryozuki> you asked* 15:50 <+ChillerDragon> yea somewhat 15:50 <+Ryozuki> about showing something in the bar 15:50 <+bridge> [ddnet] Very hard, 8 months and I still couldn’t get sdl to merge the bug that breaks both ddnet and teeworlds on macos 15:50 <+ChillerDragon> i ditched the bar and made it a hotkey 15:50 <+ChillerDragon> having it recompute in the bar hang vim 15:50 <+ChillerDragon> so yeee 15:50 <+Ryozuki> Learath2 sdl is not a reasonably sized 15:50 <+Ryozuki> imho its a p big project 15:51 <+ChillerDragon> Ryozuki: i did this https://github.com/ChillerDragon/dotfiles/blob/master/vimrc#L71-L81 15:51 <+Ryozuki> if u mean ur average github project with 1k forks 15:51 <+Ryozuki> maybe 1 month 15:52 <+bridge> [ddnet] I got a massive patch into a project with just 36 forks 😛 15:52 <+bridge> [ddnet] why are you guys talking in the bot 15:52 <+bridge> [ddnet] why are you guys talking using the bot 15:52 <+Ryozuki> we on irc 15:52 <+ChillerDragon> simple minded hoomans 15:52 <+Ryozuki> its for the c00l kids only 15:52 <+ChillerDragon> we robots 15:52 <+bridge> [ddnet] ok 15:52 <+bridge> [ddnet] They are stuck in the bot, we’ve been trying to get them out for 4 years now 15:52 <+bridge> [ddnet] o k 15:52 <+Ryozuki> D: 15:52 <+bridge> [ddnet] cool 15:52 <+bridge> [ddnet] can I get in 15:52 <+Ryozuki> yes 15:52 <+ChillerDragon> help step bro im stuck in a bot 15:52 <+bridge> [ddnet] Yeah I imagine SDL is much harder than https://github.com/AntennaPod/AntennaPod/issues/4834 😄 15:52 <+Ryozuki> quakenet 15:52 <+Ryozuki> irc 15:52 <+ChillerDragon> we should all vote for learaths pr 15:53 <+ChillerDragon> but their git frontend doesnt have votes right? 15:53 <+bridge> [ddnet] We can spam +1 emails 15:53 <+Ryozuki> timakro do u listen to any tech related podcast? 15:53 <+Ryozuki> i dont know any 15:53 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/796028595188531230/unknown.png 15:53 <+bridge> [ddnet] nope I don't 15:53 <+Ryozuki> u gotta join 15:53 <+Ryozuki> . /join #ddnet 15:53 <+bridge> [ddnet] thank you linux user 15:53 <+Ryozuki> i use arch btw 15:54 < Technoo_> oh shit 15:54 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Ryozuki same thing 15:54 <+bridge> [ddnet] right 15:54 <+Ryozuki> welcome to the dark side 15:54 <+bridge> [ddnet] I listen to video game podcasts mostly and https://strongsongspodcast.com 15:54 <+Technoo_> hello 15:54 <+ChillerDragon> @timakro xd https://zillyhuhn.com/cs/.1609858278.png 15:54 <+bridge> [ddnet] Nice! 15:54 <+bridge> [ddnet] Idk what we’ll do about sdl tbh 15:54 <+ChillerDragon> i rly need that feature! omg 15:54 <+Ryozuki> my fav podcast https://darknetdiaries.com/ 15:55 <+bridge> [ddnet] Oh I wanted to check how tf it works for ChillerDragon 15:55 <+ChillerDragon> ye 15:55 <+ChillerDragon> haxxerdragon 15:55 * Technoo_ slaps ChillerDragon around a bit with a large fishbot 15:55 <+ChillerDragon> im here 15:55 <+ChillerDragon> tmux it in 15:55 <+ChillerDragon> how do ppl do that 15:55 <+Ryozuki> ill thumps up it too 15:55 <+Ryozuki> i dont use tmux 15:55 <+ChillerDragon> timakro fan gang 15:55 <+Ryozuki> i let i3 handle my terms 15:55 <+ChillerDragon> tmux best collab tool 15:55 <+bridge> [ddnet] ChillerDragon do what? 15:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] Anyone else using antennapod? xD 15:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] I wish I was good with tmux, I'd be like 50 times more productive 15:56 <+ChillerDragon> have a tmux party together to look at macos 15:56 <+ChillerDragon> tmux so gooood 15:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] @timakro maybe you can patch antennapod for yourself? 15:56 <+Ryozuki> i will learn tmux if i ever do some remote work on some server 15:56 <+Ryozuki> until then im fine 15:56 <+ChillerDragon> for remote work tmux nesting :3 15:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] ChillerDragon: have a moment to try un-debug? 😄 15:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Learath2 I would not be able to live with the knowledge that I don't get updates 15:56 <+ChillerDragon> yes Learath2 15:57 <+bridge> [ddnet] @timakro set up email notifications for updates? 😄 15:57 <+Ryozuki> ChillerDragon did u update ur arch today 15:57 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Learath2 Uglyy! 15:57 <+bridge> [ddnet] ChillerDragon: ok can you do a otool -L on teeworlds, find the SDL it links to and gimme 15:57 <+bridge> [ddnet] So I can figure out the offsets we need 15:58 <+Ryozuki> anyone else plays screeps.com ? 15:58 <+Ryozuki> just started yesterday 15:58 <+Ryozuki> "MMO sandbox game for programmers" 15:58 <+bridge> [ddnet] Is this another one of those hackmud like obsessions of yours? 15:58 <+Ryozuki> xd 15:58 <+Ryozuki> hackmud is different 15:59 <+bridge> [ddnet] Sure 15:59 <+Ryozuki> sadly in 2.0 they ruined it 15:59 <+Ryozuki> i had a client farm 15:59 <+Ryozuki> outside the game 15:59 <+Ryozuki> but 2.0 killed out of game scripting 15:59 <+ChillerDragon> @Learath2: https://github.com/TeeworldsDB/irclogs/blob/8e488b53834f792ddc95105895e5eb78f34f148d/teeworlds/2020-12-20.log#L213-L216 15:59 <+bridge> [ddnet] I don't even know what that means 15:59 <+Ryozuki> xd 15:59 <+Ryozuki> basically u automate the game outside the game 15:59 <+Ryozuki> by giving it inputs 15:59 <+Ryozuki> and reading the logs 15:59 <+Ryozuki> but 2.0 made it way harder 15:59 <+Ryozuki> sadly 15:59 <+Ryozuki> good game btw 16:00 <+Ryozuki> https://www.hackmud.com/ 16:00 <+Ryozuki> its dead now tho 16:00 <+bridge> [ddnet] So it’s just the bundled sdl in teeworlds 16:01 <+Ryozuki> screeps uses js, but it also supports wasm 16:01 <+Ryozuki> which means i can use rusty 16:01 <+Ryozuki> rust* 16:01 <+Ryozuki> https://crates.io/crates/cargo-screeps 16:01 <+bridge> [ddnet] Have you seen tabfs on hackernews? 16:01 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://omar.website/tabfs/ 16:03 <+ChillerDragon> lul nice 16:03 <+ChillerDragon> tho never had the need for it xd 16:03 <+ChillerDragon> also i use lynx and not firefox :troll: 16:04 <+Ryozuki> i dont have that many tabs open 16:04 <+Ryozuki> i rly get like ocd and gotta clean my firefox 16:04 <+ChillerDragon> ye 16:04 <+bridge> [ddnet] I once wanted to simply get the urls in my tabs as a textfile and couldn't find an addon with that functionality which didn't look shady 16:05 <+Ryozuki> a good new vid from 3blue1brown https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lG4VkPoG3ko 16:05 <+bridge> [ddnet] lol i found this on steam before 16:06 <+Ryozuki> @louis found something cool for u https://handel-pl.github.io/ 16:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] c best 16:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] sorry with the 50 things I need to do to get this thing to even compile I'm so slow 16:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] Oh and I can't get teeworlds to link to the bundled framework lol 16:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] ddnet I can't get to link to my own sdl and teeworlds I can't get to link to the bundled libs 16:18 <+ChillerDragon> did you copy some fishy lib symlinks from the interwebs? :troll: 16:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] wait teeworlds doesn't have any bundled sdl at all 16:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] ChillerDragon where is your cmake even finding this sdl to link to? 16:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] not even on steam? 16:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] brew doesn't provide a framework, it only provides a dylib 16:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] ok ryozozki 16:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] ``` 16:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] start 16:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] 16:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] chunk kickch 16:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] play A1 for 1b 16:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] rest for 1b 16:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] rest for 1b 16:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] rest for 1b 16:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] rest for 1b 16:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] play A1 for 1b 16:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] rest for 1b 16:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] rest for 1b 16:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] endchunk 16:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] 16:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] chunk hihatch 16:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] play A2 for 1b 16:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] endchunk 16:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] 16:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] chunk snarech 16:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] rest for 1b 16:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] play A1 for 1b 16:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] endchunk 16:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] 16:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] chunk pianoch 16:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] play G4, A3 for 1b 16:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] play E4 for 1b 16:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] play G4 for 1b 16:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] play A4 for 1b 16:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] play E4, F3 for 2b 16:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] play D4 for 1b 16:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] play C4 for 1b 16:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] @heinrich5991 idk where they get it for steam 16:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] rip irc 😉 16:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/796035650059108352/my-handel-program_1.txt 16:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] actually this one works better 16:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] virus 16:26 <+bridge> [ddnet] macOS build experience is really awful 16:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] @louis nice 17:01 <+bridge> [ddnet] ChillerDragon still here? 17:04 <+bridge> [ddnet] great I took too long and lost my debugging subject because cmake wouldn't link to the sdk I want, nor would it link to the bundled sdl 17:06 <+bridge> [ddnet]