01:33 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> A lot of servers seems to be down 01:34 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> @snail ? 02:06 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> ok, all servers appear to off when nobody is playing on them and didn't turn on back 02:06 <+bridge> [ddnet] @deen uhm, did you do sth? 02:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> except for `Persian`, it's alive 02:33 <+bridge> [ddnet] I think that fixes all of them 02:51 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> yeah, nicely done 08:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] I got in top 10 today. after discussing it with others, it became clear why 😛 I misread the problem statement 09:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] @heinrich5991 congrats 😄 09:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Learath2 I updated the server, nothing else 09:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] Thanks for the workaround @Learath2 09:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] oh yea, thanks for being around to fix the servers @Learath2 09:51 <+bridge> [ddnet] Maybe the middle of the night is not the ideal time for our scheduled server restarts 09:51 <+bridge> [ddnet] I think when I set that I used to be online around that time and could react, but not anymore 10:28 <+bridge> [ddnet] what happened? 10:29 <+bridge> [ddnet] or is it secret info 👀 10:29 <+bridge> [ddnet] i wanna know too o_0 10:29 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://discord.com/channels/252358080522747904/293493549758939136/786027814608568321 10:30 <+bridge> [ddnet] why did that only recently cause an issue 10:30 <+bridge> [ddnet] idk 10:30 <+bridge> [ddnet] oof 10:30 <+bridge> [ddnet] maybe a change in compiler 10:30 <+bridge> [ddnet] sry? 😅 10:30 <+bridge> [ddnet] ``` 10:30 <+bridge> [ddnet] ./DDRace64-Server_sql: symbol lookup error: /home/teeworlds/servers/libantibot.so: undefined symbol: mem_comp 10:30 <+bridge> [ddnet] ``` 10:30 <+bridge> [ddnet] error message was here 10:30 <+bridge> [ddnet] afaik i mostly used memcmp not mem_comp anyway 10:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] *this, you can also see it in the pull request 10:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] yes, it's my fault anyway, if you want to blame someone 😉 10:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] it's only an issue because I added the glue code 10:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] Oh what was it? 10:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] i dont want to blame someone i was just hoping i didnt fuck something up again lol 10:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] Just woke up :P 10:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] apparently the compiler stopped exporting `mem_comp` from the binary for the shared libraries 10:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] gm 10:32 <+bridge> [ddnet] but `libantibot-noby.so` used it and couldn't find it 10:32 <+bridge> [ddnet] `1-rdynamic` exports all the public symbols again 10:32 <+bridge> [ddnet] `-rdynamic` exports all the public symbols again 10:32 <+bridge> [ddnet] usually it uses a heuristic at build time which symbols to export 10:32 <+bridge> [ddnet] Huh, how can the compiler not export that? It's a symbol with external linkage no? 10:33 <+bridge> [ddnet] it only exports those used by the shared libraries it can see at build time apparently 10:33 <+bridge> [ddnet] but that doesn't work for our setup where we only give the actual binary to the program at runtime 10:33 <+bridge> [ddnet] Huh, is that even a legal aasumption to make? 10:33 <+bridge> [ddnet] why cant we use memcmp instead 10:34 <+bridge> [ddnet] I didn't feel like tracking down every function we use from the main binary ^^ 10:34 <+bridge> [ddnet] i meant bcs its string.h standard fn 10:34 <+bridge> [ddnet] Anyway, did you find a way to fix it? 10:34 <+bridge> [ddnet] or is it a compatibility thing 10:34 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/pull/3391 10:35 <+bridge> [ddnet] huh smart 10:35 <+bridge> [ddnet] `libantibot-noby.so` -> `libantibot-nobo.so` 10:35 <+bridge> [ddnet] no u 10:35 <+bridge> [ddnet] :pepe_straight: 10:35 <+bridge> [ddnet] not my fault :pepeH: 10:36 <+bridge> [ddnet] ah github dark 10:36 <+bridge> [ddnet] so many years 10:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] I used it for 1 minute and went back to white 😄 10:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] @deen took me a couple minutes to figure out what was even happening. We should prolly add something to run64 to stop trying to restart and warn us 10:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] is there a way to save backtrace and restart the executable 10:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] I think I like the new dark modd 10:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] @noby search for "coredump". they're usually saved when a program crashes 10:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] try it with a simple C program that crashes 10:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Learath2 I wouldn't necessarily stop, but at least warn sounds good. But an email per failed run would quickly explode 😄 10:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] We already have coredumps but I don't think this caused a coredump 10:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] Or I couldn't find one anyway 10:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] nope, it's not a crash when it doesn't even start 10:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] it starts 10:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] it only detects at runtime that symbols are missing 10:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] not sure how it quits 10:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] oh 10:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] Need to be smarter than 1 mail per fail :D 10:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] I use https://healthchecks.io/ for this kind of monitoring (e.g. for certificates, or teehistorian downloads) 10:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] I get a single telegram message when a job has not completed on time 10:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] and no more until I fix it again 10:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] (I self-host it) 10:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] I wonder if we could monitor the servers with twping 10:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] Ping everything in serverlist once a minute or two 10:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] This would have taken down all the servers and we wouldn't get a single warning about it :P 10:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] you mean with our current system no warning? 10:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Learath2 do you have experience with prometheus/grafana or similar monitoring btw? 10:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] I want to set something up for my servers, but it all looks so complicated 😄 10:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] Nope, I never did much with larger scale system administration 10:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] We use grafana at work, works ok 10:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] @deen I think grafana usually uses a backend, what do you use? prometheus? influxdb? 10:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] I just use grafana, I didn't it up actually 😄 10:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] *set it up? 10:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] yes 10:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] My keyboard is breaking, hopefully it's just the cable 10:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] i used graphana once too 10:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] @heinrich5991 it supports various "data sources" 10:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] am i reading this wrong? it sums 15 to 40 to find the invalid number, but then it says the range is from 15 to 47 10:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/786167645506502656/unknown.png 10:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] is this a error on their part? 10:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] or what im understanding wrong 10:51 <+bridge> [ddnet] AH 10:51 <+bridge> [ddnet] ok i see 10:51 <+bridge> [ddnet] nvm i should read better 10:54 <+bridge> [ddnet] its not first and last its lowest and highest 10:54 <+bridge> [ddnet] my assumption xd 10:54 <+bridge> [ddnet] I aspire to one day wake up and actually be fully rested... I'll leave aoc to the night 10:55 <+bridge> [ddnet] well u go to sleep rly late 10:55 <+bridge> [ddnet] doing aoc in night might even worsen that 10:55 <+bridge> [ddnet] xd 10:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] @heinrich5991 10:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] what u think 10:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] any improvements today 10:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] `&Vec` 10:57 <+bridge> [ddnet] first thing I see in the code 😄 10:57 <+bridge> [ddnet] I have tried sleeping at every possible hour past 2200 until 0500. I don't even set an alarm anymore, still doesn't work 10:57 <+bridge> [ddnet] ahhh 10:57 <+bridge> [ddnet] I really wish humans had jtag 10:57 <+bridge> [ddnet] im so used to not using bare arrays 10:57 <+bridge> [ddnet] xdd 10:58 <+bridge> [ddnet] i went tosleep at 23:30 and woke up at 9:30 10:58 <+bridge> [ddnet] i sleep like a baby 10:58 <+bridge> [ddnet] @heinrich5991 CentOS is dead now so you can finally drop CMake 2.8 😄 10:58 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=CentOS-8-Ending-For-Stream 10:58 <+bridge> [ddnet] yea I saw that @Comrade 😄 10:58 <+bridge> [ddnet] wow 10:58 <+bridge> [ddnet] what did you do? 10:59 <+bridge> [ddnet] the lengths people go to convince ddnet to change their cmakelists.txt 10:59 <+bridge> [ddnet] killing of distributions… 10:59 <+bridge> [ddnet] i just happened 😄 10:59 <+bridge> [ddnet] outdated distros* 10:59 <+bridge> [ddnet] it just happened 😄 10:59 <+bridge> [ddnet] but I have bad news ^^ 10:59 <+bridge> [ddnet] this is only for centos 8 10:59 <+bridge> [ddnet] the outdated distros were centos 6&7 IIRC 10:59 <+bridge> [ddnet] CentOS 7 will stick around in a supported maintenance state until 2024. 10:59 <+bridge> [ddnet] RPM distros are bad anyway (no offense) 10:59 <+bridge> [ddnet] centos 6 maintenance ends this year 11:00 <+bridge> [ddnet] yeah 11:00 <+bridge> [ddnet] tho ppl like fedora 11:00 <+bridge> [ddnet] my first vpn i had was centos 6 i think 11:00 <+bridge> [ddnet] i didnt know much about linux 11:00 <+bridge> [ddnet] I heard good things about fedora, some friends of mine use it 11:00 <+bridge> [ddnet] but centos lacking lot ofp ackages 11:00 <+bridge> [ddnet] made the experience worse 11:00 <+bridge> [ddnet] xddd 11:00 <+bridge> [ddnet] so i never went back to using such distro 11:04 <+bridge> [ddnet] Centos is the oddest distro I've ever used 11:04 <+bridge> [ddnet] Why is a distro being that stable ever wanted? Systems stuck in the past have aaaalways caused issues 11:05 <+bridge> [ddnet] maybe banks use it 11:05 <+bridge> [ddnet] ? 11:05 <+bridge> [ddnet] xd 11:05 <+bridge> [ddnet] they use RHEL/SUSE i think 11:06 <+bridge> [ddnet] I guess if all the software you run is in-house/private you could afford to stick to a decade old version of your distro 11:06 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Ryozuki rest looks good to me. some nits: instead of returning the wrong result 0, I'd use `unreachable!()` or `panic!()` 11:06 <+bridge> [ddnet] do some companies make their own distro? 11:07 <+bridge> [ddnet] oh 11:07 <+bridge> [ddnet] unreachable macro 11:07 <+bridge> [ddnet] never heard of that 11:07 <+bridge> [ddnet] I like that your code is not using a quadratic algorithm for the first part, like mine 11:07 <+bridge> [ddnet] Doubt anyone would bother with rolling their own distro 11:07 <+bridge> [ddnet] i always knew the trick with the hashset 11:07 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Ryozuki That doesn't sound reasonable. I know SAP works together closely with SUSE for their SLES distro for example 11:07 <+bridge> [ddnet] I think the city of munich rolled their own distro 11:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] but went back to microsoft after some microsoft promised to put some HQs near munich 11:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] but went back to microsoft after microsoft promised to put some HQs near munich 11:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] 11:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] I love corporatism 11:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] rip 11:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] Windows will become a Linux distribution in a few years anyway 😄 11:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] The illusion of meritocracy is so annoying 11:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] meritocracy? 11:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] forking whole distro to change a few things... no wonder we have this mess 😄 11:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1b/Linux_Distribution_Timeline.svg 11:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] > a political system in which economic goods and/or political power are vested in individual people on the basis of talent, effort, and achievement, rather than wealth or social class. 11:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] microsoft doing that by using its wealth is meritocracy 11:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] ? 11:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] or did i understand wrong 11:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] xd 11:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] damn debian is used by a lot in that graph 11:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] Nah if one would consider just the merits, they would use linux for things like this. Then microsoft comes in with their fat stacks of cash, and breaks the illusion that there is any meritocracy 11:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Comrade yeah, I think it's better to look at the package manager. Ubuntu & Debian I mostly consider as the same for example 11:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] ah ok 11:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] Ubuntu is a better integrated debian :P 11:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] it might actually be easier to use windows for the city 11:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] What were they using it for? 11:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] since every office worker is trained in microsoft office and not in libreoffice 11:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] updated my solution 11:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] but then it might also make sense to break that cycle if you think longer-term 11:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] but as of today, you learn microsoft office in school (at least in berlin) 11:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] (this is for the Windows as a Linux distro argument: http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=8764) 11:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] did u know openoffice is outdated, but their creators refuse to recommend the usage of the updated libreoffice 11:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] Ah for user facing stuff idk. I was thinking about dumb displays, where windows is just a silly silly choice 11:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Ryozuki yes, see me not using openoffice in my sentence 😄 11:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] Do you know the drama behind that? I never looked into it 11:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] i saw it once on reddit 11:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Ryozuki Oracle... 😄 11:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] sun donated it to the apache foundation 11:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] it's a dying project there, too few contributors 11:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] they refuse to let it die there though, and refuse to recommend libreoffice instead 11:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/ja0q8v/open_letter_from_libreoffice_to_apache_openoffice/ 11:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://blog.documentfoundation.org/blog/2020/10/12/open-letter-to-apache-openoffice/ 11:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] found it 11:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] At least there the situation is rather clear. For mysql/mariadb it's more chaotic, where MySQL has some features & bug fixes, MariaDB another set, but none is clearly better 11:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] but openoffice still has brand value 11:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] @deen i use postgresql these days 11:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] Btw libreoffice works about as good as visual studio. It had been a while since I've seen software that slow 11:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] libreoffice handles pasting images rly bad for me 11:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] i always end up using g oogle docs on the web 11:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] maybe you're running it in the wrong environment 11:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] sadly 11:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] it runs fine on my parent's debian and on a windows 10 11:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] but for anything serious i use LaTeX 11:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] but on my arch linux it's reaaly slow 11:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] latex best 11:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] Possible, it runs awfully on my mac, a little better on linux 11:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] disabling spellcheck and changing some weird config options related to rendering alleviated the issue a little 11:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] do u know what runs horrible too? eclipse 11:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] xd 11:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] but it's not become "usable" 11:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] It's actually slower than running older microsoft office in a vm in either case :P 11:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] isn't some part of LibreOffice written in Java? 11:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] not a relevant part AFAIK 11:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/6/21355674/human-genes-rename-microsoft-excel-misreading-dates 11:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] don't use excel, people ^^ 11:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] omg 11:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] Shame a fork or an alternative hasn't emerged 11:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] is libreoffice calc as good? 11:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] i never used excel tbh 11:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] for my purposes it works 11:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] I guess an office suite is an undertaking too large 11:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] I use it for editing csvs e.g. 11:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Learath2 yea, think so, too 11:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] some ppl solved AoC in excel 11:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] I use the cloud version of office for the rare occasion that I need office 11:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] meh, cloud < proprietrary software < open-source software 11:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] Uni has a subscription 11:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] if it's gone, it's gone 11:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] :justatest: 11:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] On mac I have the mac version of office 11:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] @deen running a rebuild of the servers already? or can I do it 11:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] @heinrich5991 one benefit of cloud is that you get performance. The cloud version of matlab works better for me e.g. 11:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] matlab is such a bad programming language IMO. are you forced to use it? 11:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] Yep forced. Awful language 11:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] it has inconsistent behavior in a lot of places that lead to wrong results instead of exceptions 11:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] whats a matlab alt 11:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] python&numpy 11:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] they even feature the same function names 11:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] what about gnu octave 11:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] French unis switched their linalg courses to numpy a while ago 11:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] only that their functions behave sanely in edge cases 11:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Ryozuki octave is bug-for-bug compatible 11:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] so not sane 11:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] what does that mean 11:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] Italy is always a bit behind the curve :P 11:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] berlin also uses numpy 11:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] e.g. the primitive type 11:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] numpy is mostly made with C right? 11:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] and then exposed to python 11:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] No way to get good performance in pure python sadly 11:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] the primitive type is an "at least two dimensional array of numbers" in matlab 11:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] it's "an n-dimensional array of numbers" in numpy 11:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] Not until they finally find a way to remove the GIL 11:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] rust is trying to have its own stuff https://nalgebra.org/ :pepe_straight: 11:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] Tho idk if numpy parallelizes. But the problems of linear algebra parallelize reeeaaally well 11:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] or the max function in matlab: it returns the max of each row in a vector. except if you only have one column. then it returns the max of that column 11:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] like tf. it broke my code when I only had one datapoint 11:26 <+bridge> [ddnet] or the max function in matlab: it returns the max of each row resulting in a vector. except if you only have one column. then it returns the max of that column 11:26 <+bridge> [ddnet] Matlab is really a goof when it comes to this stuff. It tries to behave how a "scientist" that doesn't know programming would expect it to behave 11:27 <+bridge> [ddnet] @heinrich5991 run already 11:27 <+bridge> [ddnet] `23/23 servers updated successfully` 11:27 <+bridge> [ddnet] kk 11:27 <+bridge> [ddnet] Did you switch the symlink back? 11:28 <+bridge> [ddnet] no 11:28 <+bridge> [ddnet] Should Iß 11:28 <+bridge> [ddnet] ? 11:28 <+bridge> [ddnet] Maybe try to run one server see if that fixed it? :P 11:28 <+bridge> [ddnet] it works on ddnet.tw 11:28 <+bridge> [ddnet] Or if you are feeling brave yeah, you can switch it all 11:29 <+bridge> [ddnet] (I tested it a couple of secs ago) 11:29 <+bridge> [ddnet] Tried one on GER2, works 11:29 <+bridge> [ddnet] switched all now 11:29 <+bridge> [ddnet] nice. ty 🙂 11:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] I still can't get my hands on one of the new ryzens :( I hate scalpers 11:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] let's wait for next generation - it will be even better 😄 11:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] there are still no good mainboards for Ryzens anyway i think 11:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] ill probs disappear from here soon :monkalaugh: 11:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/786182353822810152/unknown.png 11:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Learath2 which one did you want to buy? 11:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] The 5800x is sometimes available in Germany (but it has the worst perf/cost ratio) 11:57 <+bridge> [ddnet] 5950x 11:59 <+bridge> [ddnet] I'd even set aside the money, never thought stock would be the issue :P 12:04 <+bridge> [ddnet] AMD is using 80% of their TSMC wafers to produce PlayStation & Xbox chips, so not much left over for their other business at the moment 12:05 <+bridge> [ddnet] I was also thinking of getting a ps5, those are also all gone 12:06 <+bridge> [ddnet] If only there was a way to enforce "one per person" on these times of demand 12:06 <+bridge> [ddnet] Scalpers are making soooo much money 12:07 <+bridge> [ddnet] They are all buying with scripts too, so it's not even fair competition 12:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] The usualy solution is a 24 hour entry which is restricted to once per person and then you do a lottery and the winners can buy it. But honestly I'd just wait it out until stock improves 12:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] Hm, that does sound better 12:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] i also wanted to get a ps5 12:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] but couldnt 12:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] rip 12:26 <+bridge> [ddnet] Boring C++ today: https://github.com/def-/adventofcode-2020/blob/master/day09.cpp 12:26 <+bridge> [ddnet] ```cpp 12:26 <+bridge> [ddnet] std::cout << *std::min_element(&v[j], &v[k+1]) + *std::max_element(&v[j], &v[k+1]) << std::endl; // Part 2 12:26 <+bridge> [ddnet] ``` 12:26 <+bridge> [ddnet] 👀 12:28 <+bridge> [ddnet] I have cyberpunk preloaded, hopefully my 1080 isn’t too out of date to run atleast at high. The game looks so nice, wouldn’t want a compromise 12:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Learath2 1080 runs it on high for sure 12:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] it recommends a 1060 for high 12:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] c++ rly looks ugly 12:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] Well beauty is both subjective and relative 12:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] yeah 12:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] rust is beutiful 12:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] :PES2_WotAlt: 12:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] I think it looks relatively prettier than rust 12:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] i dont 12:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] i always found c++ and specially modern c++ to look rly ugly 12:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] xd 12:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] Modern c++ is pretty ugly. @deen’s solution doesn’t have much of it though 12:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] Yes, I tried to convert it to modern C++ and noticed that was making it even worse 12:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] so I just left it as I wrote it initially 12:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] :monkaS: 12:42 <+ChillerDragon> is it rly ugly tho? Or just intimidating if your not used to it? 12:42 <+ChillerDragon> I always thought im just too nub for this crazy new c++ 12:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] Besides, modern c++ does get prettier when you omit the namespaces, it just looks cluttered mostly 12:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] yea cluttered 12:43 <+ChillerDragon> there has to be some advantage right? 12:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] C++20 brings with it concepts that cleans up the ugliest part of the modern c++ syntax, the templates 12:43 <+ChillerDragon> is it harder to mess up or something? 12:43 <+ChillerDragon> deen dont u write modern c++ fulltime? tell me something nice about it 12:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] Not really, it’s mostly a result of years of backwards compatibilty 12:43 <+ChillerDragon> hm 12:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] The way it’s set up is really extremely flexible btw 12:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] Coding for a toaster with only 1k of memory? You can replace the allocator e.g. 12:46 <+ChillerDragon> oh so the modern c++ still trys to run well on limited hardware? 12:46 <+ChillerDragon> i did not expect that 12:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] Or the atomics that allow you to micro optimize 12:46 <+ChillerDragon> so the new c++ is not a tons of abstractions where you lose control? 12:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] It’s tons of abstractions where you can manipulate every part of it 12:47 <+ChillerDragon> i see 12:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] It tries to cater to like everyone 12:47 <+ChillerDragon> but i rly never had the urge to learn it 12:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] There are some parts of the it just fly right over my head 12:48 <+ChillerDragon> i think @jxsl13 has the most c++ tw project as far as i know :D 12:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] Like execution policies 12:50 <+ChillerDragon> https://github.com/jxsl13/zcatch/commit/c2693d52369dc36dd489010389de7e56993d96c4 12:51 <+ChillerDragon> std::string IP = {aBuf}; in tw code looks weird 12:52 <+bridge> [ddnet] Oh, or memory resources, who uses those and for what even 12:54 <+bridge> [ddnet] u can never learn 100% c++ 12:54 <+bridge> [ddnet] there will be always u dont know 12:54 <+bridge> [ddnet] and thats not true for other languages 12:54 <+bridge> [ddnet] atleast thats how i feel 12:54 <+bridge> [ddnet] there will be always something u dont know 12:55 <+bridge> [ddnet] C++ has too wide a usecase for someone to understand everything, such a complex beast 12:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/786199617284079666/personal_learning_curve.jpg 12:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] C I even know which parts of the standard relate to what behaviour. Even the standardese in The C standard is easier to understand 12:57 <+bridge> [ddnet] Generally I have trouble reading the C++ standard 12:57 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Learath2 we use them at work. It's nice to have different allocators for different stuff, with different properties. And you can get statistics of what is using how much memory exactly 12:58 <+bridge> [ddnet] And I think some people do have a full understanding of C++, but very few in the world probably 12:58 <+bridge> [ddnet] @deen what are they? I have a vague idea of what problem they are trying to solve, is it containers with different allocators containing the same type being different types? 12:59 <+bridge> [ddnet] (I assumed you meant memory_resource s) 12:59 <+bridge> [ddnet] Yes, for me it's just an interface for an allocator 13:00 <+bridge> [ddnet] I want to learn more C++17 and 20 this year. If I ever have free time and am not sleepy 13:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Learath2 if cyberpunk 2077 is in stadia does it mean they have a linux build? 13:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] stadia only good thing may be that games will be made on linux too 13:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] for me xd 13:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/786210253061881876/19908860961553016899gol1.png 13:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] Well it’s not known what stadia runs on, but I’d guess so, windows doesn’t have good support for the dozen gpus they run per server 13:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://www.reddit.com/r/cyberpunkgame/comments/ct67ur/vulkan_and_linux_support_in_cyberpunk_2077/ 13:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] Oh, hadn’t seen we know what stadia uses now 13:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] i mean if ur game uses vulkan linux support shouldnt be that hard 13:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] It does make sense tho, as said windows doesn’t like these applications 13:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] as the post says they probs should only need to change the input and windowing to get it working on linux 13:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] well thats making lot of assumptions 13:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] I would think they first made a linux build, then ported to stadia 13:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] :pepe_straight: 13:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] why wouldnt they announce the game on linux then 13:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] because nearly no linux players, so who cares? 13:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] Idk , not cool enough news? 13:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] meh 13:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] this circle of death 13:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] no players -> no game -> no growth of players 13:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] we will never go out of this 13:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] Even the nicest developers don’t care about us 😦 13:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] i mean 13:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] look ddnet 13:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] Ddnet is linux first :P 13:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] there isnt much cross incompatible code 13:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] u just abstract it first 13:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] Porting is actually not hard at all, they just don't care as there is no money 13:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] but if u start the development thinking in crossplatform terms 13:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] See how good it got when suddenly there was profit in sight with steamOS? 13:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] i dont think it costs that much money 13:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] obviously remaking a non crossplatform would cost more money 13:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] sadly steamos was a failure 13:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] Everyone and their mothers rushed to get linux ports, the drivers leaped an entire light year ahead 13:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] yeah 13:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] i hope valve still works on this 13:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] Then yeah steamos failed and everything stopped 13:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] well they work a lot of proton 13:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] but proton is not native no matter what 13:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] Borderlands 2 linux version is still like 5 patches behind 13:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] well i wish also valve made steam for linux better 13:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] currently u gotta install 32 bit librarys 13:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] just for steam 13:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] libs* 13:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] I wish steam in general got better. It's way too unnecessarily complex 13:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] better than epic store 13:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] :monkalaugh: 13:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] I wonder why steam on linux needs 32bit libraries 13:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] i think its cuz some old games 13:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] i think u can rely on steam sdl 13:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] not sure 13:50 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://steamcommunity.com/app/221410/discussions/ 13:50 <+bridge> [ddnet] :POGGIES: 13:50 <+bridge> [ddnet] didnt know there was a forum 14:01 <+bridge> [ddnet] They do shit about some games:justatest: 14:50 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiWjanAdD3s&t=13m22s 14:50 <+bridge> [ddnet] this was the darkmode announcement 15:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] nice 15:13 <+ChillerDragon> lol 15:13 <+ChillerDragon> so cinnematic rofl 15:13 <+ChillerDragon> its ugly darkmode tho sadly i still use lightmode 15:14 <+ChillerDragon> compared to vscode for example its rly hard on the eyes somehow 15:15 <+ChillerDragon> i think its too dark bg 15:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] u can only truly enjoy dark mode if it had an epic anime backstory with sacrifices of the evil and birth of the good 15:23 <+bridge> [ddnet]