00:05 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Soreu> And that's why first thing I do after joining any new server is
00:05 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Soreu> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/749389411615244318/unknown.png
00:28 <+bridge> [freenode] <hendrikpern> Why using vpn is bad? I was babned on multiple maps for 10 minutes. At that time, I was forced to use VPN.
00:30 <+bridge> [ddnet] <deen> The idea here is that people should not be able to evade bans.
00:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] <deen> If you keep getting banned even though you're a good team player and not blocking anyone, then you can use @ Moderator (without the space) on our Discord to request help from a moderator
02:55 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Soreu> Updated entities: https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/issues/2659#issuecomment-683361395
09:40 <+ChillerDragon> if there were no bans then evading bans would be much harder. think about it guys
09:41 <+ChillerDragon> isnt ddnet the safe place for people that got banned on ddmax? Why are you so eager to keep people out of this community
09:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] <deen> There are some extremely persistent trolls who keep destroying the game play for many players
09:42 <+ChillerDragon> im sure there are other ways to make trolling harder than banning
09:43 <+ChillerDragon> yea but i see sometimes banning is the only or most efficient option. And it can be a solid last weapon. But seems like nowerdays it became first choice
09:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] <deen> We currently have 1 IP address banned globally, so I don't think it's as big of a problem as you make it out
09:47 <+ChillerDragon> oh cool yea u might be right :)
09:47 <+ChillerDragon> but isnt it about the player and not the ip? Thats the issue with long time bans isnt it
10:33 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> What is the point of tolerating people that make gameplay bad for others? It's a net negative, they usually don't bring anything to the table
10:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/pull/2675
10:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> when konsti rushes to add a feature just cuz he wants a useless 3key bind
10:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> Whoever did the multi modifier patch, careful with the edge cases
10:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> i think he copiedi t from somewhere else
10:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> maybe he doesnt even understand it
10:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> Binds consisting of only modifiers shouldn't be bound
10:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> Except for single ones
10:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> Who is banned globally
10:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> you
10:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> Which caused a lot of bugs in the original patch to add modifiers
10:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> i didnt make the pr
10:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> it should also not collide with the 3key binds we have
10:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> the debug mode and such
10:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> iirc
10:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> A random botter
10:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> lifeban and rangeban and nameban all botters
10:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> nameban konsti then
10:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> :troll:
10:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> @Ryozuki debug mode and editor maybe we could make into special binds that always happen
10:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> I never botted :GWchadThonkery:
10:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> @ᶰ°Konͧsti are u plsplsplslol on github?
10:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> plsplsplstroll is abcqwerty
10:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> Im Zoozti
10:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> Zoozti a fitting name
10:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] <nori> @deen could you publish new engine under beta if it's done? so people can try who has issues before, more test would be better for this one.
10:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> wdym by engine
10:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] <nori> Opengl pr
10:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] <nori> Or jupeys pr
10:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> i would call that renderer
10:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] <nori> Yea renderer than :d
10:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> u can
10:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> test it already iirc
10:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> @nori if u have  it on steam
10:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> right click ddrace
10:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> click betas
10:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> then nightly builds
10:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> Inb4 revert revert revert opengl changes
10:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] <nori> Oh so nightly has it
10:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> i think it was readded ye
10:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] <deen> @nori no, nightly doesn't have it yet. but will readd soon
11:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Soreu> @deen add back entities for "blockwords" - I didn't touch this one
11:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Soreu> oh, well, nvm, they are not deleted
11:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] <deen> @Soreu I ran an optimizer over all the files you sent me
11:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] <deen> which is probably why they show up as changed
11:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Soreu> Ye, I just misunderstood the commit changes
11:32 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> @Learath2 @heinrich5991 adding a field to the projectile netobject that indicated the id of the owner would break stuff?
11:32 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> @Learath2 @heinrich5991 adding a field to the projectile netobjectto indicate/ the id of the owner would break stuff?
11:33 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> @Learath2 @heinrich5991 adding a field to the projectile netobject to indicate the id of the owner would break stuff?
11:34 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> maybe a alternative netobjectex for projectile with it
11:34 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> so we can apply alpha correctly to explosions and projectiles
11:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> We don't like to touch the vanilla objects iirc, but you could actually add the id to the end and the clients will tolerate it
11:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> but i cant know if its filled correctly in case u connect to a old server right?
11:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> The new "Get or default" should work for the old server case
11:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> Ah, actually we only added that for netmsgs, not objects
11:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> Objects are rather tough to work with
11:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> maybe i can just add a projectileex
11:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> How will you associate it with a projectile?
11:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> but i dont know if client supports it
11:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> i would replace completly projectile
11:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> You don't need to know, just send it, clients that don't support it will drop it
11:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> idk how to associate it
11:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> Ah, you want to replace it, I don't think that's such a great idea
11:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> do you know how?
11:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> packets dont have a id that i know
11:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> I don't know a way to associate them either, nor do I know a good solution to this actually
11:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> @heinrich5991 might come up with something when he is around
11:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> :feelsbadman:
11:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> adding get or default to netobjs isnt feasible?
11:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> let me check that thing
11:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> its in the CUnpacker
11:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> i am really worried about DDNet once will build moving tiles
11:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> I hate them
11:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> u bringing the topic is what will make ppl add that
11:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> 0iq
11:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> @Ryozuki https://discordapp.com/channels/252358080522747904/293493549758939136/732182541410238545 we discussed it here
11:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> You'll need to implement a way to replace an object in a snap with another one
11:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> https://discordapp.com/channels/252358080522747904/293493549758939136/732555478659235860
11:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> ^^ was a good idea, it's what I'd have gone for
11:50 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> hm i see
11:59 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> it would only be cool if its really good working like feeling like a real block, not like a stopper and also shown in entities.
11:59 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> 
11:59 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> The quad tiles are so laggy buggy and shitty
11:59 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> > in addition to the other functions like SnapInvalidateItem(int SnapID, int Index), the client interface gets a new function SnapReplaceItem(int SnapID, int Index, void *pItem, int ItemSize);. in the snap sanity check loop, this function is called at the appropriate places when a old netobj is detected
11:59 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> > this requires support code in datasrc/{network,datatypes}.py
12:00 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Soreu> @bubbacio there's no applying. Just start committing to the open source code https://github.com/ddnet
12:01 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> It's not exactly trivial to code let alone code in a way that performs well
12:01 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Soreu> lul, apparently discord just showed me really old messages for a moment
12:02 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> lmao
12:02 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> cuz the link Learath posted
12:02 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> :GWchadThonkery:
12:06 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> Discord really should get a handle on the massive embeds...
12:06 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> @Learath2 its cuz it doesnt limit images in embeds
12:06 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> i think
12:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Soreu> @Learath2 Theoretically it did. enclosing link in `<` & `>` like `<https://github.com/ddnet>` will not create embeds
12:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] <deen> No one uses Linux and Mac on our steam version
12:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] <deen> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/749573654521708625/screenshot-20200830121723.png
12:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> i use linux
12:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> on steam
12:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] <deen> No one uses Linux and Mac on our Steam version 😄
12:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] <deen> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/749573794540027934/screenshot-20200830121816.png
12:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> fake news
12:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> :feelsbadman:
12:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] <deen> Yeah, but like 20 people peak 😄
12:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] <deen> but in other news, it looks like we might be added to SUSE
12:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> did we fix the rpath issue?
12:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> I think they don't want rpaths at all
12:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> i played with steam Linux but ill stay on normal client
12:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] <nori> isn't that would be better if ddnet use XDG_DATA_HOME on linux? home directory :\ meh
12:26 <+bridge> [ddnet] <deen> @Learath2 no, we did not yet
12:26 <+bridge> [ddnet] <deen> @Learath2 i feel like just not creating the stub would be the easiest, but @heinrich5991 probably prefers the clean solution
12:26 <+bridge> [ddnet] <deen> @nori yes, there's an issue forthat
12:29 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> this is cool deen, when i open client or refresh browser i cant click the one i want to go at because every half second the list moves xd
12:30 <+bridge> [ddnet] <deen> this doesn't f ix the moving
12:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> it does actually i think?
12:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> Because ger servers load like instantly and then one by one the high ping ones Come but i guess i could already fix that by filtering off china servers xd
12:50 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> There is no fixing the moving sadly
13:59 <+bridge> [ddnet] <deen> Well, you could just have the server counts on ddnet.tw in the json file we download anyway
13:59 <+bridge> [ddnet] <deen> and only update the pings for each ip once
13:59 <+bridge> [ddnet] <deen> @Learath2 ^
14:06 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Pepe> I play on Linux steam, it's nice
14:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] <BannZay> big dots in freeze - small dots in freeze - no dots in freeze
14:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] <BannZay> Could not we just came to the 'no dots' back in the ~2016 when I been asking about it so hard ? Being a tester I have not used those dots not a single time.
14:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] <BannZay> Whatever. Does this change override custom entities for players ? So we need to make backups.
14:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] <BannZay> Since they are not frequently updated some users might lost data
14:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] <BannZay> big dots in freeze - small dots in freeze - no dots in freeze
14:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] <BannZay> Could not we just came to the 'no dots' back in the ~2016 when I been asking about it so hard ? Being a tester I have not used those dots a single time.
14:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] <BannZay> Whatever. Does this change override custom entities for players ? So we need to make backups.
14:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] <BannZay> Since they are not frequently updated some users might lose the data
14:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] <BannZay> big dots in freeze - small dots in freeze - no dots in freeze
14:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] <BannZay> Could not we just came to the 'no dots' back in the ~2016 when I been asking about it so hard ? Being a tester I have not used those dots a single time.
14:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] <BannZay> Whatever. Does this change override custom entities for players ? So we need to make backups.
14:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] <BannZay> Since they are not frequently updated some users might lose the data
14:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] <BannZay> Talking about https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/commit/3767eebead65d482a5666df145f368ef070ec2fd
14:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] <deen> @BannZay players should put them in config_directory.bat
14:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] <BannZay> @deen I did not know about it. Where should I put my 'data\editor\entities_clear\ddnet.png' ?
14:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] <BannZay> into '%config_directory%\editor\entities_clear\ddnet.png' ?
14:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] <deen> yes
14:26 <+bridge> [ddnet] <BannZay> awesome, thank you! It was not clear for me as my editor folder is empty in cfg directory
14:30 <+bridge> [ddnet] <deen> yeah, we should make that more clear
14:57 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Soreu> Would it be possible to move custom files once detected that those are not the default ones? like the mentioned custom entities many players have
15:01 <+bridge> [ddnet] <BannZay> the only problem I see is that cfg directory just one but user can have multiple copies of the DDNet client (with different customizations). Most likely its a pretty rare case
15:02 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> or allow a custom data dir directly in the client directory like:
15:02 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> default_data and custom_data
15:04 <+bridge> [ddnet] <BannZay> I preffer to have multiple themes in client so you can change a theme in game but seems it is too complicated
15:05 <+bridge> [ddnet] <BannZay> so users will create themes instead of direct replacement of existant files
15:05 <+bridge> [ddnet] <deen> @Jupstar ✪ you can set that in storage.cfg already
15:05 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> @deen yes but most ppl aren't me xd
15:06 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> like not intuitive
15:06 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> @BannZay that would be the nicest solution yes
15:07 <+bridge> [ddnet] <deen> https://ddnet.tw/ reachable for you guys?
15:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] <deen> Oh well, now it works again for me. I think Cloudflare is not 100% reliable
15:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] <gerdoe> monopoly of cloudflare will eat web
15:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> wow, how many bug reports to you have for SDL @deen xD
15:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] <deen> only 3 I think, but they keep reappearing
15:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> xDD
15:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Soreu> I guess the name of `config_directory.bat`is already confusing, and the fact it's not a regular shortcut so not everyone knows it's a thing they can just open
15:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> yeah
15:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> probs u right
16:01 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Eki> are there any way to get the ip list of current player in the server? when being ddos i think we can use something like iptables by bash script to block all data packet except these form  ip list of current player.
16:03 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Eki> it was very depressing to disconnect from server after 1~2 hours' playing bucause of ddos.
16:03 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Eki> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/749630440859631666/unknown.png
16:03 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Eki> :ouch:
16:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Im 'corneum> do you mean an auto-generated whitelist?
16:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Eki> yes, when being ddos, i think we need a auto-generated whitelist mechanism to keep all data packet except these form current player.
16:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Soreu> Ppl who DDoS also join the server to watch by themselves suffering of others
16:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Im 'corneum> yeah i requested something like that years ago. so i think its not possible
16:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Eki> but i think ddoser use fake ip so they cannot  join the server
16:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] <jao> they use spoofed player ips to ddos
16:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] <redix> When the attack is strong enough blocking in iptables is probably already too late. You rather want a firewall at provider level
16:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Eki> and ddoser dont have a way to get the ip of current player
16:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] <jao> they do
16:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] <jao> by hosting their own server
16:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] <jao> when u refresh server list u send them ur ip
16:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Eki> oh no i did not expect that
16:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Im 'corneum> > when u refresh server list u send them ur ip
16:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Im 'corneum> @jao that makes sense but i never thought about that. i thought only admins can see ip's and only on that server
16:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Eki> but they also dont know which server you will join
16:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] <jao> yes but they are admin on their own server
16:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Eki> > When the attack is strong enough blocking in iptables is probably already too late. You rather want a firewall at provider level
16:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Eki> @redix but this way make the ddoser'a act
16:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Eki> > When the attack is strong enough blocking in iptables is probably already too late. You rather want a firewall at provider level
16:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Eki> i think we could use not only the ip whitelist but also the src port
16:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Eki> it is hard for ddoser find the which port player actually use
16:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] <jao> but they ddos the entire srv
16:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] <redix> Whitelist all player IPs+port and ratelimit the rest
16:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Im 'corneum> do they need many ip adresses to ddnos or only one?
16:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Eki> > but they ddos the entire srv
16:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Eki> @jao even though i think this way can make the attack weaker cuz ddnet server had not to reply the fake packet which ddos send
16:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Eki> and if we can block data packet in linux kernel mode it may be more efficient
16:28 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> ddos ger2 rip
16:28 <+bridge> [ddnet] <maggi323> ger1
16:28 <+bridge> [ddnet] <maggi323> ger1 too
16:29 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Eki> rip
16:34 <+bridge> [ddnet] <afterfx> $ddos
16:55 <+bridge> [ddnet] <BannZay> > they use spoofed player ips to ddos
16:55 <+bridge> [ddnet] <BannZay> @jao does not DDNet server use antispoofing techniques?
16:57 <+bridge> [ddnet] <BannZay> I am bad at this area, but in mind comes something like tcp handshake
17:01 <+bridge> [ddnet] <BannZay> what if server does some kind of handshake once per our with each client to update a secret value which ddoser does not know.
17:01 <+bridge> [ddnet] <BannZay> Or checking this value in packets takes to much resources to prevent small/medium ddos?
17:02 <+bridge> [ddnet] <BannZay> what if server does some kind of handshake once per hour with each client to update a secret value which ddoser does not know.
17:02 <+bridge> [ddnet] <BannZay> Or checking this value in packets takes to much resources to prevent small/medium ddos?
17:03 <+bridge> [ddnet] <BannZay> So you are whitelisted during this hour (hour is too small value probly)
17:05 <+bridge> [ddnet] <jao> and then the ddosers steals ur ip
17:05 <+bridge> [ddnet] <BannZay> how?
17:06 <+bridge> [ddnet] <BannZay> I been talking about protocol modification, so each packet to server has secret value
17:06 <+bridge> [ddnet] <BannZay> or does not - but then you are not whitelisted
17:07 <+bridge> [ddnet] <jao> :justatest:
17:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] <BannZay> idk, seems like I am reinventing the wheel. sorry for offtopic
17:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] <le> https://discordapp.com/channels/252358080522747904/293493549758939136/749573796637442119 super late but i use the linux steam client
18:02 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ReiTW> @BannZay the issue is everything is under udp, some hosts will filter all that spoofed traffic if they see too much from a single source IP, that's could be a reason this guy is spoofing players IPs
18:04 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> imagine
18:04 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> adding only 1 spawn
18:04 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> in 2020
18:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] <!ʎø1øʞıƝg> Why is there no iptables specified for tw only like on ddnet IPTABLE firewall for all?
18:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] <!ʎø1øʞıƝg> it's cheaper then buying expensive firewall
18:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] <!ʎø1øʞıƝg> just saying
18:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] <!ʎø1øʞıƝg> 🤡
18:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] <!ʎø1øʞıƝg> it's better then null routing traffic
18:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] <BannZay> @ReiTW I see, thanks for the explanation
20:02 <+ChillerDragon> is ger1 rip?
20:04 <+ChillerDragon> fix spawn mommy
20:06 <+ChillerDragon> wait the map has only 1 spawntile and its on the ground? xd how did that pass testing xd