01:03 <+bridge> [ddnet] but lua is slow af 01:05 <+bridge> [ddnet] is good enough for most purposes imho 01:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] yeah, i meant in gamecore or smth 01:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] defs nogo 01:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] I think matricks had some success with it but wanted to roll his own bytecode running on a vm anyways 01:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] i mean the idea is pretty cool, if there is a toggle or smth, and only activates the vm code when e.g. server says so, that would give alot of more possibilities 05:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] Sound awesome, will wait for this moment 07:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Jupstar ✪ would be fine for game core 07:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] lua is pretty damn fast, even without the support of huge companies behind it 09:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] just no, no scriptlanguage is fast 09:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] lua isnt even faster than javascript 09:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] ofc all scripting languages are way slower than "real" languages like c/c++ but the question is whether it actually affects the execution of the program 09:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] the problem is. the gamecore is part of the game loop, so it drastically effects executaion 09:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] the problem is. the gamecore is part of the game loop, so it drastically effects execution 09:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] oh i guess i didnt see context.. if its running 50x/sec for every tee then it likely would affect execution lol 09:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] not only that, how would the interpolation work? e.g. destroying terrain with a rocket.. that would need to be handled with the lua scripts aswell 09:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] and then its every frame 09:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://youtu.be/MYsy_2sjO6Y?t=62 09:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] are u talking about a mod like this? 09:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] well the mod doesnt matter, it's more of a "how would the client know what to calculate without making it script too" 09:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] 09:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] probably heinrich thinks more like the gamecore changes only velocity etc. 09:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] and these interpolation are then interpolated/handled like now 09:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] 09:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] so basically only a small physic change 09:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] 09:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] that does create alot of possibilities anyway. 09:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] 09:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] Still that would effect execution, bcs lua is easily 30-40 times slower than c 09:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] well the mod doesnt matter, it's more of a "how would the client know what to calculate without making it script too" 09:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] 09:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] probably heinrich thinks more like the gamecore changes only velocity etc. 09:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] and these values are then interpolated/handled like now 09:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] 09:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] so basically only a small physic change 09:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] 09:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] that does create alot of possibilities anyway. 09:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] 09:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] Still that would effect execution, bcs lua is easily 30-40 times slower than c 09:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] well the mod doesnt matter, it's more of a "how would the client know what to calculate without making it script too" 09:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] 09:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] probably heinrich thinks more like the gamecore changes only velocity etc. 09:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] and these values are then interpolated/handled like now 09:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] 09:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] so basically only a small physic change 09:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] 09:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] that doesnt create alot of possibilities anyway. 09:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] 09:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] Still that would effect execution, bcs lua is easily 30-40 times slower than c 09:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] oh well in that case yeah i dont think replacing the core game elements with lua would help .. for any reason.. and it would also likely make it slower yes 09:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] a vm would deffs fit better, but even that is still 2x slower probs. 09:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] 09:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] It's actually a matter of, if it's worth it, but e.g. as i said a switch from the server, telling the client to use a scrippted core or smth. would give more controll to a possible mod, so not that bad. 09:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] 09:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] Still teeworlds deffs has other problems than supporting gamechanging mods xD 09:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] theres already alot of stuff possible with default client in the way of modding, so ye i think for now people can download custom clients if they want huge changes to a mod like the minetee one 09:26 <+bridge> [ddnet] yeah, i still miss a pokemon teeworlds mod, normally everything has a pokemon mod 09:26 <+bridge> [ddnet] atleast we have some race maps with pokemon pics on it xD 09:27 <+bridge> [ddnet] never played pokemon i miss working master-servers more than that xd 09:27 <+bridge> [ddnet] haha 09:28 <+bridge> [ddnet] well too sad we still depend on vanilla soo much, heinrich probs would have fixed so much already :/ 09:28 <+bridge> [ddnet] rly? what would be fixed by now if it werent for the need to support vanilla 09:29 <+bridge> [ddnet] a http master server, would atleast block alot of the ddos i guess 09:29 <+bridge> [ddnet] why couldnt this be added anyway? vanilla servers would register to normal masters, ddnet servers would register to both 09:30 <+bridge> [ddnet] well true, if ddnet makes another tab for mods that support this protocol, defenitelly possible i'd say, but this goes too deep in the direction of ddnet masters, they can explain you why probably 09:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] maybe bcs it's still not fixing vanilla shit xD 09:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] well true, if ddnet makes another tab for mods that support this protocol, defenitelly possible i'd say, but this goes too deep in the direction of ddnet admins, they can explain you why probably 09:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] ddnet already has its own master server tho lol, they even have a whole separate section for only ddnet servers so it wouldnt seem so strange to me if they added "servers with http master support" to that tab or something 09:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] ye but lol cant fix someone elses game 09:32 <+bridge> [ddnet] but isnt your problem that your fng server doesnt appear anyway? 09:32 <+bridge> [ddnet] how does it help a ddnet exclusive master server exists 09:32 <+bridge> [ddnet] i meant for all ofc 09:32 <+bridge> [ddnet] but isnt your problem that your fng server doesnt appear anywhere? 09:32 <+bridge> [ddnet] how does it help a ddnet exclusive master server exists 09:33 <+bridge> [ddnet] well ive had players everyday even since the attacks but yeah noticeably fewer players and some ppl say they cant see it except in favorites 09:33 <+bridge> [ddnet] and i figured because my server is ddnet based i could update it to include whatever http support ddnet adds 09:34 <+bridge> [ddnet] yeah, that's why it probs wouldn't be a bad first step, if 0.7.1 doesnt add this xDDDD 09:35 <+bridge> [ddnet] but if oy keeps up his work, vanilla can definetelly catch up a bit, and then it wouldn't be a bad time to just add 0.7.1 compability 09:35 <+bridge> [ddnet] ye it would be nice, if nothing else i want antiping in 0.7 its by far the best feature on ddnet 09:36 <+bridge> [ddnet] mhh, a real antiping would probs be nice 09:36 <+bridge> [ddnet] not with the 20ms tick offset 09:36 <+bridge> [ddnet] yeah but even the ddnet antiping is beter than nothing imo 09:36 <+bridge> [ddnet] indeed 09:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] wait what do u mean 20 ms offset? 09:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] 1000/50 09:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] ive always wondered about ways to possibly improve antiping 09:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] i mean the ticks 09:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] ik a tick is 20ms but 09:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] why is it 1 tick late 09:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] well in theory it can 09:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] or nearly 09:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] basically if your packet comes 1 microsecond too late ;~; 09:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] is this why antiping looks "jumpy" 09:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] nah that's a matter of the ping 09:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] 100ms can't predict AD movement 09:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] e.g. pressing both keys whole time xD 09:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] 100 ms <- ping 09:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] i play with 120ping always and i think antiping does a pretty good job tbf 09:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] maybe its different for precise movemnts 09:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] also totally irrelevant but do u understand what IntraGameTick is for? o_o 09:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] yeah, but it's like, do you feel a difference in 60hz and 144hz. you just notice it's not perfect xD 09:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] it's the interpolation 09:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] never used 144hz lul 09:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] it feels insanly better imo 09:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] its more like noticing the difference between vsync and no vsync, i cant see it but i can feel it 09:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] i have 144hz 09:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] intra is like the millseconds you have passed since the last tick 09:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] u cant go back to 60hz peasant 09:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] ikr xd 09:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] ah thats what i thought thx 09:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Ryozuki 🤑 09:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] its not that expensive 09:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] well idk 09:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] well theoretically you won't be much better between 100hz and 200hz in a game like teeworlds, since its only 50 ticks anyway. 09:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] 09:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] tho i think our brain is much better, when it has realistic movements, independend of the reaction it could make 09:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] the way ive heard it explained is that higher fps makes it more likely that the game has a new frame drawn by the time the monitor refreshes because frames arent generated at a consistent rate 09:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] so even if it only refreshes/ticks 50-60x/sec having higher fps can still make a difference 09:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] yes, in the end we could basically discuss, can you feel the difference of 1ms.. and then i would say, we might be able to see it indeed, but that probably isn't game breaking for anyone. actually an interesting topic, bcs ppl always say "we can't do this and that", and 10 years later they are like. dude who says 1ms is no difference xD 09:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] well i dont think its possible to *see* 1ms difference 09:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] as ryo basically said, once 144hz you never want 60hz again, because then u on the other side 09:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] but it is definitely possible to feel it 09:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] the dark side 09:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] yeah 09:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] talking about time is really time consuming :/ 09:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] ⏳ 13:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] Pretty late but I'm sure you can get away with having a huge portion of the game loop in lua. Love2D works pretty well and if you ever encounter a performance issue (interpolations) you can offload it to native code with a bridge like React Native has. A VM running optimized bytecode I doubt you could tell apart from benchmarking it. 13:33 <+bridge> [ddnet] Native/scripted hybrid solutions are getting more and more common nowadays and a lot of the performance issues with them are getting solved. 13:34 <+bridge> [ddnet] Regarding improving anti ping, can anyone even read the anti ping code? 😄 13:52 <+bridge> [ddnet] Dumb question xd 13:52 <+bridge> [ddnet] where is the antiping code anyway 13:53 <+bridge> [ddnet] :wtf: 13:53 <+bridge> [ddnet] A developer ASK for that 13:53 <+bridge> [ddnet] Pls remove dev group 14:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] The anti ping code is really weird vali xD 15:04 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Bojidar Marinov use search function :) 15:04 <+bridge> [ddnet] i believe in gameclient.cpp but im not sure 15:05 <+bridge> [ddnet] last time I heard it was spread all over the place 15:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Jupstar ✪ what do you base your reasoning on? 15:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] I also had that phase where I thought that every script language must be horribly slow 16:27 <+bridge> [ddnet] They are pretty darn slow, but doesn't mean they aren't useful or they aren't suitable for anything 16:37 <+breton> i use ddnet client and all ddnet servers are listed for me 16:37 <+breton> while the "internet" tab with usual tw is down 16:37 <+breton> can i get my server with infclass to the list of ddnet servers? 16:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] Just put them in ur favorite 16:38 <+breton> but others won't do so 16:39 <+breton> when i said "my server" i meant "a server that i host" 16:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] ikr 16:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] well if ur server isn't a ddnet server i guess they can't make this 18:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] @heinrich5991 a real time application where performance matters.. Like in games, there is no argument for performance of script languages vs compiled stuff doesn't matter. Sure it seems like nobody needs his 6k fps in teeworlds, but in the end partially implementing scripts will easily kill 1k of that frames. Script languages are good when they have a single task, because ez to use and debug 18:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] Nobody needs 5k fps in any game. We could just render a black screen at a couple thousand fps aswell. We cut from the fps to add things to the game 18:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] AAA games take this all the way to the end where they optimise games to run at no lower then a certain fps target and anything after that is free ball 18:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] Especially on consoles like the PS3 where they optimise to exactly 30fps 18:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] As long as the game looks fluent for everyone it doesn't matter 18:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] we dont need more pfs, we need stabilized fps 19:06 <+bridge> [ddnet] this is it no joke 19:06 <+bridge> [ddnet] frame times are the problem 19:06 <+bridge> [ddnet] microstutter and stuff like that is the worst for a APM game 19:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] @heinrich5991 19:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] LUA vs JS in various alogs 19:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/faster/lua-node.html 19:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] 19:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] C vs JS in various algos 19:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/faster/gcc-node.html 19:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] 19:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] even if they specific algorithms, they would perform much better in other scenarios 19:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] @heinrich5991 19:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] LUA vs JS in various alogs 19:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/faster/lua-node.html 19:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] 19:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] C vs JS in various algos 19:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/faster/gcc-node.html 19:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] 19:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] even if they specific algorithms, they wouldnt perform much better in other scenarios 19:53 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Jupstar ✪ lua is heavily used in many games without problems that I'm aware of 19:53 <+bridge> [ddnet] e.g. check out factorio 19:55 <+bridge> [ddnet] but factorio or what ever is probs a simulation 19:55 <+bridge> [ddnet] hm? 19:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] its a simulation game isnt it? 19:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] but an action game like teeworlds 20:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] but not an action game like teeworlds 21:26 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Jupstar ✪ Factorio is a game 21:26 <+bridge> [ddnet] not a simulation 21:27 <+bridge> [ddnet] a really good game, with so many features 21:57 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Ryozuki using `>` you can produce quotes on github 21:57 <+bridge> [ddnet] i see 22:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] @ReiTW | Blizzard well... a simulation game ofc 22:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] It'S NOT A SIMULATION 22:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] GAME 22:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] dude 22:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] its a simulation game 22:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] did you ever play? 22:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] did you ever play it? 22:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] i googled 22:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] play it 22:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] why should wikipedia lie 22:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] you won't say it's a simulation game 22:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] tell me what does it simulate 22:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] NOTHING 22:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] well some work processes it seems 22:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] yeah clicking 3 times to add items in a machine is simulating 22:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] >Factorio is a real-time strategy video game in development by Wube Software. 22:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] tecnically, all games are simulation 22:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] technically, all games are simulation 22:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] >Categories: […] Construction and management simulation games […] 22:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] so the evidence is kinda mixed 22:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] well anyway 22:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] @heinrich5991 I've already played it, I don't know why they think it's a simulation game 22:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] i would say event based scripting is ok, like you finish a quest and some script does some things. 22:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] but i wouldn't add it to the physics in an action game 22:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] i doubt factorio needs as goof fps as tw or csgo 22:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] i doubt factorio needs as good fps as tw or csgo 22:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] if you like to add it to any game do as you want. i just wouldn't like to see it in teeworlds 22:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] factorio = ❤ 22:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] + mods 22:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] = <3<3<3 22:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] @FluffiexD u nub u play solo 22:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] hahaha u have no friends 22:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] xD 22:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] I HAve fRienDs 22:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] explain me the word FRIENDS 22:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] !! 22:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] caughed 22:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] 22:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/504750327048830996/Sans_titre.png 22:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] this is a friend 22:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] xD 22:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] he said me he isnt ur friend 22:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] let me ASK HI 22:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] let me ASK HIM, cuz of u I'll have to annoy him while he's coding 22:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] he said ye i'm his friand 22:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] screen of obvious fake 22:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] screen or obvious fake 22:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] @ReiTW | Blizzard give us a proof! 22:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] 22:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/504751765498101761/Sans_titre.png 22:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] TAKE DAT 22:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] 😮 22:27 <+bridge> [ddnet] That's gay as fuck 22:33 <+bridge> [ddnet] xD