08:20 <@deen> Learath2: Plans to also fix fng2, i/gctf+, foot and bomb? Also could you apply your patches to Brazil too? It's back online now 08:23 <+Learath2> deen: couldn't find a source repo for foot, fng2 are we running Jupeyy's?, i/gctf I'll do soon, didn't even know we ran bomb, brazil I'll do now 08:24 < ddnet-commits> [ddnet] bors[bot] merged staging into master: https://git.io/fAJMT 08:47 < ddnet-commits> [ddnet] bors[bot] merged staging into master: https://git.io/fAJDU 09:04 < ddnet-commits> [ddnet] def- pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/fAJye 09:04 < ddnet-commits> ddnet/master e2eb4a6 Dennis Felsing: Add Filter for connecting players (fixes #1263) 09:04 <+Learath2> fixed fng2 09:06 <@deen> Great, not sure where to find foot, I think it was tee ball or something 09:08 <+Learath2> deen: well I have other things to do today, might do gctf tonight 09:09 <@deen> I'd like to release new client now 09:09 <@deen> then we have filter on (connecting) players by default 09:09 <@deen> and people should be a bit less annoyed 09:10 <@deen> Ryozuki: hi. wanna write release notes? :D 09:10 <+Ryozuki> ok 09:11 < ddnet-commits> [ddnet] def- pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/fAJy8 09:11 < ddnet-commits> ddnet/master 63c7105 Dennis Felsing: Version 11.4 09:12 <+Learath2> deen: is a filter for (connecting) a good idea? 09:12 <@deen> yeah 09:12 <@deen> because most servers won't get fixed 09:12 <+Ryozuki> yes 09:12 <@deen> and no one wants to see 16/64 counts everywhere 09:13 <+Learath2> does it modify the number of players? 09:13 <@deen> of course the proper fix is fixing the server, but we can only do that for our own and publish the patched sources on github.com/ddnet 09:13 <@deen> yes 09:13 <@deen> I have done the same for ddnet.tw/status a few days ago, works fine so far 09:13 <+Learath2> not being able to connect to 0/64 0/16 servers might be weirder, no? 09:14 <@deen> If you filter out full servers they'll be removed anyway 09:14 <@deen> so they're full and empty at the same time 09:14 <+Learath2> I see 09:15 <+Ryozuki> was this spoofing obvious at the time of creating early teeworlds versions? 09:15 <+eeeee> yes 09:15 <+Ryozuki> lol 09:15 <+Learath2> xAngel was the first one to create a tool for all the kids I think 09:16 <+Learath2> he also created a tool to spam with bad packets which dropped everyone authed on rcon 09:16 <+eeeee> let's not acknowledge anyone's credit in creating these tools 09:16 <+Ryozuki> can't heinrich release a new patched vanilla version? 09:16 <@deen> yeah, but heinrich wanted another fix first 09:17 <@deen> https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/issues/500 09:19 <+Ryozuki> how many time it takes for the website to update and show new version? 09:19 <+Learath2> seconds 09:19 <+Learath2> usually 09:19 <@deen> I'm still compiling 09:19 <+Ryozuki> ah 09:19 <@deen> my server is some 5 W machine so give it some time :D 09:19 <+Ryozuki> :D 09:20 <@deen> actually 10 W with 4 cores 09:20 <+Ryozuki> i see heinrich doesnt want credit, Learath2 u want? 09:22 <+Learath2> where? 09:22 <@deen> on /downloads/ 09:22 <+Ryozuki> https://ddnet.tw/downloads/ 09:22 <+Learath2> oh the changelog, no need 09:32 <@deen> Learath2: could you rsync the missing teehistorian files for ger2 to ger.ddnet.tw:teehistorian/data/ger2 ? I didn't notice that it always failed the ssh authentication :D 09:43 <+Ryozuki> done 09:43 <@deen> Thanks! 09:44 <@deen> You should write Changelog [Ryozuki] :D 09:44 <+Ryozuki> haha 09:44 <+Ryozuki> altho some commit messages are confusing, "Forgot to remove ASan" 09:44 <@deen> address sanitizer I assume, so nothing relevant for players 09:44 <+Ryozuki> yeah i didnt add it 09:45 <@deen> except that we might want to provide a version with ASan enabled so that players can try to find memory bugs 09:47 <+Ryozuki> made a little fix 09:47 <+Ryozuki> damn now i see a ; there xD 09:48 <+Ryozuki> ok now 09:48 <+Ryozuki> sry 09:48 <@deen> Is this some elaborate plan to make me give you push permissions to ddnet-web? :D 09:48 <+Ryozuki> no lol xD 09:57 <+Ryozuki> https://hastebin.com/durapiwiwi.apache this guy was clearly not trying to do something malicious 09:59 <@deen> just some automated script to look for vulnerabilities, quite normal 12:25 <+Ryozuki> i think update button doesn't appear 12:26 <+Ryozuki> and i downloaded 11.4 and it says 11.3.1 is out 14:42 <@deen> Ryozuki: we heard that a few times already, then your client somehow can't access https://info.ddnet.tw/info 14:42 <@deen> Some firewall? We never figured out why same guy on discord had the problem 14:43 <+Ryozuki> i can see it on the web browser 14:43 <@deen> But your client can't access it, what does it say on command line? 14:43 <@deen> there should be some debug output about downloading /info 14:45 <+Ryozuki> the only weird thing i see is: 14:45 <+Ryozuki> [2018-08-21 14:44:09][console]: executing 'settings_ddnet.cfg' 14:45 <+Ryozuki> [2018-08-21 14:44:09][console]: No such command: conn_timeout_protection. 14:45 <@deen> on ddnet tab press refresh 14:45 <@deen> what does it show about downloading /info then? 14:45 <+Ryozuki> no output 14:47 <@deen> Even in release build it should show 14:48 <+Learath2> [2018-08-21 15:48:19][http]: http https://info.ddnet.tw/info?name=Learath2 14:48 <+Learath2> looks like that 14:50 < ddnet-commits> [ddnet] def- pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/fAUmR 14:50 < ddnet-commits> ddnet/master c3efb38 Dennis Felsing: HTTP options should be saved 18:02 <@deen> Ryozuki: he seems to have the same problem: https://forum.ddnet.tw/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6609 18:02 <+Ryozuki> yea 19:40 < ddnet-commits> [ddnet] bors[bot] merged staging into master: https://git.io/fAUDK 21:18 < ddnet-commits> [ddnet] heinrich5991 opened pull request #1264: Fix (partially) skipping through teles and death tiles (master...pr_ddnet_tele_fix) https://git.io/fAUxf 21:42 <+bridge_> [ddnet] i tried to read my /root/spoof.conf 21:42 <+bridge_> [ddnet] and it failed 21:43 <+bridge_> [ddnet] probably permissions thing 21:43 <+bridge_> [ddnet] yes. 21:43 <+bridge_> [ddnet] so its only the user of the tw server 21:43 <+bridge_> [ddnet] which isnt the whole filesystem 21:43 <+bridge_> [ddnet] yes 21:43 <+bridge_> [ddnet] it still is a vulnerability. thing should be a whitelist, not a blacklist 21:43 <+bridge_> [ddnet] imo it would be better to allow it to have bette rcontrol about the exec command 21:43 <+bridge_> [ddnet] have you considered using symlinks? 21:43 <+bridge_> [ddnet] you have that control 21:44 <+bridge_> [ddnet] idk baut symlinks 21:44 <+bridge_> [ddnet] ok, maybe learn about them…? ^^ 21:44 <+bridge_> [ddnet] mimimi 21:45 <@heinrich5991> irc bridge re-instated, let's see how this works out 21:47 <+bridge_> [ddnet] yay 21:54 <+bridge_> [ddnet] @RafaelFF does that work for you? 21:54 < ddnet-commits> [ddnet] heinrich5991 opened pull request #1265: (Re-?)add proper install target (master...pr_ddnet_cmake_install2) https://git.io/fAUjA 21:55 <+bridge_> [ddnet] @heinrich5991 do your fix also prevent going through laser door? 21:55 <+bridge_> [ddnet] yes 21:55 <+bridge_> [ddnet] they use the same code 21:55 <+bridge_> [ddnet] then you broke at least a map 21:56 <+bridge_> [ddnet] michler 21:56 <+bridge_> [ddnet] ddmac 21:56 <+bridge_> [ddnet] ddmax 21:56 <+bridge_> [ddnet] ddmax 21:56 <+bridge_> [ddnet] final part you fall down through laser door 21:56 <+bridge_> [ddnet] oh 21:56 <+bridge_> [ddnet] apparently not 21:57 <+bridge_> [ddnet] im sure there was a map where oyu had to fall through a door 21:58 <+bridge_> [ddnet] and Runaway map has a secret room that you can only access by falling though stoppers 22:10 < ddnet-commits> [ddnet] heinrich5991 opened pull request #1266: Add map bug for GetSpeed2 (master...pr_ddnet_getspeed_mapbug) https://git.io/fATvg 22:14 <@heinrich5991> deen: I don't know how to shut down a ddnet server location, could you do that for FRA? 22:14 <@heinrich5991> (it would be best if you could keep the server online for a little while after all tw servers closed, so that we can still pull the teehistorian files) 22:22 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> i fucking hate heinrich5991 22:22 <+bridge_> [ddnet] @heinrich5991 what about the time on old map with tele skip? 22:22 <+bridge_> [ddnet] now it's not possible anymore 22:22 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> 😡 😡 😡 22:22 <+bridge_> [ddnet] @Chairn which one? 22:22 <+bridge_> [ddnet] cant find it 22:23 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> Dozens of maps 22:23 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> broken 22:23 <+bridge_> [ddnet] i know it happend very often on an oldschool one 22:23 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> i wonder how u can be so **** 22:23 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> 😡 😡 😡 😡 22:25 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> DDNet is fucked up 22:25 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> useless shit 22:26 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> i hope u all die and especially heinrich this ugly piece of faggot shit dies before he fully destroy DDRace 22:26 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> I rq 22:27 <+bridge_> [ddnet] i guess that's not a big loss 22:28 <+bridge_> [ddnet] well, he demonstrated just before he left… 22:31 <@deen> heinrich5991: ok 22:34 <+bridge_> [ddnet] Thats not how it should be expressed but i can understand why he is so angry 22:35 <+bridge_> [ddnet] changing physics of DDRace is a bad thing and i really dont like it 22:35 <+bridge_> [ddnet] [he's had problems expressing himself in civil terms before] 22:35 <+bridge_> [ddnet] I see where you're coming from 22:35 <+bridge_> [ddnet] there's downsides to changing physics 22:35 <+bridge_> [ddnet] if you would explain the community what are the bugs you are going to fix i guess the majority dont want it fixed 22:36 <+bridge_> [ddnet] such as: maps possibly not working anymore/certain speedruns no longer possible 22:36 <+bridge_> [ddnet] no 22:36 <+bridge_> [ddnet] what are the downsides you have in mind? 22:36 <+bridge_> [ddnet] its about The changing itself 22:36 <+bridge_> [ddnet] hm. 22:37 <+bridge_> [ddnet] who are you even that you affect DDRace without asking the community they like it? 22:37 <+bridge_> [ddnet] i doubt they would if you explain them what will change 22:38 <+bridge_> [ddnet] I don't think a complete aversion to any change helps ddnet 22:38 <+bridge_> [ddnet] I think a complete aversion to any change doesn't help ddnet 22:38 <+bridge_> [ddnet] using this special physics to make some funny things (yes also little skips are an important part of DDRace) and they are also be in use for special kinds of parts 22:38 <+bridge_> [ddnet] Whats the Problem with these physics? 22:38 <+bridge_> [ddnet] whats the change? 22:39 <+bridge_> [ddnet] I dont see any 22:39 <+bridge_> [ddnet] you can't fly through stoppers with high speed anymore @Xusep 22:39 <+bridge_> [ddnet] :feelsbadman: 22:39 <+bridge_> [ddnet] That destroy a lot of maps 22:39 <+bridge_> [ddnet] (note that going *into* stoppers is still supported) 22:39 <+bridge_> [ddnet] I dont understand how you are unable to understand this 22:39 <+bridge_> [ddnet] it was nice to get trapped into stoppers for unlimited dj :GWqlabsFeelsGoodMan: :heartw: 22:40 <+bridge_> [ddnet] i dont talk about going into stoppers 22:40 <+bridge_> [ddnet] Being able to cross doors and stoppers should keep being a part of DDRace 22:40 <+bridge_> [ddnet] when I create a map, I don't want to keep all the bugs of ddnet in mind 22:41 <+bridge_> [ddnet] I would guess that every special case, every bug, is a hinderance for new players to learn the game 22:41 <+bridge_> [ddnet] For new maps testers have to see the possibility of cheating and on old maps its already used where you cant know of rank1 is still beatable there now 22:41 <+bridge_> [ddnet] you could get stuck in stoppers in some maps, due to that bug 22:41 <+bridge_> [ddnet] it happened to me 22:41 <+bridge_> [ddnet] Then you should create a NEW bugfree stopper tile 22:41 <+bridge_> [ddnet] like with ht 22:41 <+bridge_> [ddnet] are there new players? :GWsetmyxPeepoCry: 22:42 <+bridge_> [ddnet] if ddnet fails to attract any new players, it'll certainly die at some point ^^ 22:42 <+bridge_> [ddnet] Kobra 2 rank1 is unbeatable now 22:42 <+bridge_> [ddnet] i think on Kobra 2 solo too 22:43 <+bridge_> [ddnet] cheating maps is an attraction for me lol its like outsmarting the mapper 22:43 <+bridge_> [ddnet] but i guess thats not the point of ddr 22:44 <+bridge_> [ddnet] I think the compromise that Wombat suggested makes sense 22:44 <+bridge_> [ddnet] I think it is a bad idea to do this 22:44 <+bridge_> [ddnet] Since we can't know where people flew through stoppers, we should enable the new stopper behaviour for all new maps 22:44 <+bridge_> [ddnet] I think its the best idea 22:45 <+bridge_> [ddnet] But we did the same thing for all other physics changes 22:45 <+bridge_> [ddnet] See old shotgun, new shotgun 22:45 <+bridge_> [ddnet] (not last due to [10:41 PM] heinrich5991: you could get stuck in stoppers in some maps, due to that bug) 22:45 <+bridge_> [ddnet] Old hookthrough, new hookthrough 22:45 <+bridge_> [ddnet] you cant now how many maps you just destroyed now 22:45 <+bridge_> [ddnet] old teleport weapons too 22:46 <+bridge_> [ddnet] It's important to help noobs and prevent bugs 22:46 <+bridge_> [ddnet] these were hard changes though 22:46 <+bridge_> [ddnet] But it's also important to keep it possible to beat old top times 22:46 <+bridge_> [ddnet] Is shotgun bug fixed on new maps? 22:46 <+bridge_> [ddnet] you might be talking about different shotgun bugs (I dunno) 22:47 <+bridge_> [ddnet] And what about other servers that consume ddnet source code? They might be surprised by this change and forced to maintain a fork 22:47 <+bridge_> [ddnet] Maybe I was a bit too quick to merge the change, but I guess it's not running on official servers yet 22:47 <+bridge_> [ddnet] If you doing this compromise i said i would be very glad 22:47 <+bridge_> [ddnet] @deen I'm sure they will let us know if that patch prevents anything 22:48 <+bridge_> [ddnet] Still tons of affected maps 22:48 <+bridge_> [ddnet] i dont like changing this in general 22:49 <+bridge_> [ddnet] there are different concerns: we want to keep map times beatable etc. 22:49 <+bridge_> [ddnet] I also have another concern: it should be easy for players, mappers to understand the physics 22:49 <+bridge_> [ddnet] Yes but its impossible to find all the maps 22:49 <+bridge_> [ddnet] I think a stopper you can pass through is counter-intuitive 22:50 <+bridge_> [ddnet] Keep it as a feature 22:50 <+bridge_> [ddnet] I mean if we want to try so hard, we could probably do it… 22:50 <+bridge_> [ddnet] part of why teehistorian exists 22:50 <+bridge_> [ddnet] no 22:50 <+bridge_> [ddnet] teehistorian exists for i dont know 1year? 22:50 <+bridge_> [ddnet] yes 22:50 <+bridge_> [ddnet] affected maps are 5 years old 22:50 <+bridge_> [ddnet] Believe me as a 10 years player 22:51 <+bridge_> [ddnet] see, that's the problem, we're all 10 years players here 22:51 <+bridge_> [ddnet] hardly any new players coming in 22:52 <+bridge_> [ddnet] You never play :D 22:52 <+bridge_> [ddnet] I play from time to time, I have not recently played, that is true 22:52 <+bridge_> [ddnet] And i think its easier to explain new players that there is a bugged version of a tile and a fixed one 22:53 <+bridge_> [ddnet] but try to explain them why some strange thing works on some maps and on some not 22:53 <+bridge_> [ddnet] I don't think so. I think it would be easier to have one working version of the tile 22:53 <+bridge_> [ddnet] that can be alleviated by giving a hint to the player ingame 22:53 <+bridge_> [ddnet] if you want this 22:53 <+bridge_> [ddnet] thats the reason why you added a new hooktrough tile instead of placing them instead of 22:53 <+bridge_> [ddnet] yes, but it didn't make things *easier* for players 22:54 <+bridge_> [ddnet] now they have to know the physics of 2 hookthrough tiles 22:54 <+bridge_> [ddnet] (one doesn't allow to hook if you're right next to the block) 22:54 <+bridge_> [ddnet] ... 22:54 <+bridge_> [ddnet] e.g. 22:54 <+bridge_> [ddnet] If you want a clean and reasonable version of DDNet for new players then a rewrite sounds like a good approach. I think for DDNet it's more important to keep compatibility and keep the current players 22:55 <+bridge_> [ddnet] You still dont understand that there are so many maps :/ 22:55 <+bridge_> [ddnet] rewrites never work(tm) 22:55 <+bridge_> [ddnet] At workI'm in a team doing a rewrite of our database execution engine, don't say that 😄 22:56 <+bridge_> [ddnet] ^^ 22:56 <+bridge_> [ddnet] but it seems that our goals for the project diverge there :/ 22:56 <+bridge_> [ddnet] I also dont like that you change such known thing without even tell people about 22:56 <+bridge_> [ddnet] nobody looks in this chat 22:57 <+bridge_> [ddnet] https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet-web/pull/58 22:57 <+bridge_> [ddnet] (there is/was a news piece in the making) 22:57 <+bridge_> [ddnet] But that's just about unfinishable maps, right? 22:57 <+bridge_> [ddnet] And as i said there are a lot maps using some special physics (ofc often as skip) and people will rq when they fuck up their time because its suddenly broken 22:57 <+bridge_> [ddnet] yes. it describes the change though(?) 22:57 <+bridge_> [ddnet] So if they're still finishable but you take 1 minute longer, then bad luck 22:58 <+bridge_> [ddnet] lmao 22:58 <+bridge_> [ddnet] only a coder think that a player who only wants to play DDNet looks on github what changed 22:58 <+bridge_> [ddnet] (note that you should interpret deen's statement with quotation marks) 22:58 <+bridge_> [ddnet] Yes deen 22:58 <+bridge_> [ddnet] @Wombat those changes will be published on ddnet.tw automatically 22:58 <+bridge_> [ddnet] (and into the client) 22:58 <+bridge_> [ddnet] I think 22:58 <+bridge_> [ddnet] no, i do that manually 22:58 <+bridge_> [ddnet] oh ok 22:59 <+bridge_> [ddnet] I have some rank 1 done by this physics 23:00 <+bridge_> [ddnet] thank you for saving my rank for ever :feelsamazingman: 23:00 <+bridge_> [ddnet] At the start of DDNet I did make some breaking physics changes though 23:00 <+bridge_> [ddnet] before the first finishes were done 23:00 <+bridge_> [ddnet] Who cares then 23:00 <+bridge_> [ddnet] like fixing doors after team restart 23:01 <+bridge_> [ddnet] so if this change came back then it would be 100% ok 23:01 <+bridge_> [ddnet] But now you affect so many maps and ranks :/ 23:01 <+bridge_> [ddnet] So please do it as a new tile 23:02 <+bridge_> [ddnet] if it were a new tile, it would be entirely properly coded and you couldn't go inside of it, I guess 23:02 <+bridge_> [ddnet] @heinrich5991 I guess it's like C++ and Rust. In C++ they also can't change anything that breaks existing code, instead they create new features on top 23:02 <+bridge_> [ddnet] @heinrich5991 thats okay i think. I mean if you want buggy features use a buggy tile :D 23:03 <+bridge_> [ddnet] (i.e. that was not the point of the fix. the point of the fix was to fix the stopper tile while retaining reasonable backward compatibility) 23:03 <+bridge_> [ddnet] I donate 50€ to DDNet if this change will be deleted 🙄 🤔 23:03 <+bridge_> [ddnet] but after hearing the counter arguments from the players we're not keeping 100% compatibility 23:03 <+bridge_> [ddnet] i.e. retaining everything except the behavior that was annoying 23:03 <+bridge_> [ddnet] yes 23:03 <+bridge_> [ddnet] that's what a physics change is 23:04 <+bridge_> [ddnet] now the right question to ask would be how much it breaks/fixes 23:04 <+bridge_> [ddnet] bridge is back? 23:04 <+bridge_> [ddnet] yes 23:04 <+bridge_> [ddnet] irc had such a peace 23:04 <+bridge_> [ddnet] Well, we can't do physics changes, except when they allow you to stay at least as fast in every case. for example jetpack was made faster at some point to improve prediction, thus old ranks were easy to beat 23:05 <+bridge_> [ddnet] Otherwise when we fix a bug in a map why are we deleting the cheated ranks? 23:05 <+bridge_> [ddnet] If you are about a pool of maps and ranks you can control its okay 23:05 <+bridge_> [ddnet] @deen you do that when you are 100% sure its cheated 23:06 <+bridge_> [ddnet] okay except Konsti rank1 there was no Proof needed 23:06 <+bridge_> [ddnet] XD 23:06 <+bridge_> [ddnet] yeah in c++ u see lot of new functions having _s at end due to thread safety 23:07 <+bridge_> [ddnet] @Wombat We should make the best decisions for the community independent of bribes 😄 23:07 <+bridge_> [ddnet] :feelsbadman: 23:07 <+bridge_> [ddnet] But its the best thing for community 23:08 <+bridge_> [ddnet] so. you feel that it's affecting a significant share of the maps and should thus be rolled back? 23:08 <+bridge_> [ddnet] @Wombat that money can control what decisions are being made? ^^ 23:08 <+bridge_> [ddnet] Personally I don't know how many maps are affected, I haven't been racing actively since before DDNet was started 23:08 <+bridge_> [ddnet] Or do you think players will be happy not being able to beat a rank 1? 23:08 <+bridge_> [ddnet] So I have to trust the judgement of those who race 23:08 <+bridge_> [ddnet] And u cant know if the rank is even cheated 23:09 <+bridge_> [ddnet] @deen a lot of old maps are affected and maps like GetSpeed2 and brainduck are unfinishable 23:09 <+bridge_> [ddnet] i would add a new tile and tell testers to not accept new maps with old 23:09 <+bridge_> [ddnet] so people on other communities can use old tile too 23:09 <+bridge_> [ddnet] if they want 23:09 <+bridge_> [ddnet] Kobra 2 has unbeatable rank1 for example 23:10 <+bridge_> [ddnet] people in other communities can also use the mapbug infrastructure if they absolutely want that bug 23:10 <+bridge_> [ddnet] (or they can talk to us. I don't think that alternative community exists) 23:10 <+bridge_> [ddnet] im not sure that thing is easily configurable 23:10 <+bridge_> [ddnet] but they have to add each map hashsum 23:10 <+bridge_> [ddnet] no 23:10 <+bridge_> [ddnet] they can modify the map as well, as you requested, back when it was added 23:10 <+bridge_> [ddnet] People should be still allowed to use old tile in maps 23:11 <+bridge_> [ddnet] Because as heinrich said if new tile he completely fix the new stoppers 23:11 <+bridge_> [ddnet] But the physics of old stoppers are nice for maps 23:12 <+bridge_> [ddnet] how do you evaluate community feedback, @deen? it seems we don't have a useful method for htat 23:12 <+bridge_> [ddnet] Talk to people 😄 23:12 <+bridge_> [ddnet] tbh i wouldnt care about difficulty for new players 23:12 <+bridge_> [ddnet] even if u do this it will still be a difficult and niche game 23:12 <+bridge_> [ddnet] u have to put effort to enter and like this game 23:12 <+bridge_> [ddnet] I still remember the emojis debacle, where we both have a majority for and against emojis in the client 23:12 <+bridge_> [ddnet] Listen to their arguments, think about them 23:12 <+bridge_> [ddnet] Majority isn't that important, arguments are 23:12 <+bridge_> [ddnet] I dont see any active player wants stoppers fixed 23:12 <+bridge_> [ddnet] especially old players 23:12 <+bridge_> [ddnet] I don't count as a player I guess, because I play more rarely than others? 23:13 <+bridge_> [ddnet] "Majority" can be easily manipulated in our case, we won't be able to implement fair elections, that's a much harder problem 23:13 <+bridge_> [ddnet] I gave you a lot of good arguments :feelsbadman: 23:13 <+bridge_> [ddnet] @heinrich5991 I understand your desire to make DDNet cleaner and easier for newcomers 23:14 <+bridge_> [ddnet] and those are good goals, just not above everything else 23:14 <+bridge_> [ddnet] thanks. that actually helped I think. you're the first one to say that 23:14 <+bridge_> [ddnet] I dunno, it shouldn't even help :/ 23:14 <+bridge_> [ddnet] what shouldn't help? 23:15 <+bridge_> [ddnet] nvm. you're showing that you read what I said, that's a good thing I guess 23:15 <+bridge_> [ddnet] if u want to make teeworlds easier for newcomers u should continue timakro tutorial implementation 23:15 <+bridge_> [ddnet] https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/pull/612 23:15 <+bridge_> [ddnet] there's more than one place where making ddnet clearer can be done ^^ 23:15 <+bridge_> [ddnet] @Ryozuki eh, don't tell people who work on a feature that's important to them that they should work on what's important for you 23:16 <+bridge_> [ddnet] i still think this is a very niche game and hard even if you tell obvious things 23:16 <+bridge_> [ddnet] Whats you are going to do now heinrich 23:16 <+bridge_> [ddnet] -s 23:16 <+bridge_> [ddnet] well in my opinion fixing stoppers wont make it "lot" more friendly 23:17 <+bridge_> [ddnet] But break a lot things 23:17 <+bridge_> [ddnet] the harder thing for newcomers to understand is that they can hook between corners, which is a bug 23:17 <+bridge_> [ddnet] hardest* 23:17 <+bridge_> [ddnet] and was fixed in TW 😄 23:17 <+bridge_> [ddnet] break a few maps and break a (so far undetermined) amount of speedrunning 23:17 <+bridge_> [ddnet] in tw 0.7. not sure if that will ever come out 23:18 <+bridge_> [ddnet] Its not about a few maps.. 23:18 <+bridge_> [ddnet] physically-wise hammer-flying shouldnt be possible 23:18 <+bridge_> [ddnet] my eng sucks 23:18 <+bridge_> [ddnet] it's not? you think there are many maps that need skipping through stoppers, @Wombat ? 23:18 <+bridge_> [ddnet] Oh 23:18 <+bridge_> [ddnet] i maybe know 3 23:19 <+bridge_> [ddnet] if doors are also "fixed" 23:19 <+bridge_> [ddnet] yes, they are 23:19 <+bridge_> [ddnet] Thats bad 23:19 <+bridge_> [ddnet] I discovered they use the same physics as stoppers do 23:19 <+bridge_> [ddnet] that break even more speedruns 23:19 <+bridge_> [ddnet] in some maps u can skip doors 23:19 <+bridge_> [ddnet] depending on the way they are placed 23:19 <+bridge_> [ddnet] 😦 23:19 <+bridge_> [ddnet] lol thats easy to see that they have same physics 23:20 <+bridge_> [ddnet] Stoppers are very hard to skip 23:20 <+bridge_> [ddnet] doors are easier 23:20 <+bridge_> [ddnet] doors are very easy to skip 23:20 <+bridge_> [ddnet] doors are as easy to skip like blockers 23:20 <+bridge_> [ddnet] and door skip is used 23:20 <+bridge_> [ddnet] i remember 23:20 <+bridge_> [ddnet] i think 23:20 <+bridge_> [ddnet] the tile which stops in every direction 23:21 <+bridge_> [ddnet] yes 23:21 <+bridge_> [ddnet] they consist of all-way-stoppers 23:21 <+bridge_> [ddnet] anyway, I'm off for bed for tonight. good night 23:21 <+bridge_> [ddnet] speeders are also bugged 23:21 <+bridge_> [ddnet] and those bugged speeders are used in lot of maps 23:21 <+bridge_> [ddnet] true 23:21 <+bridge_> [ddnet] where u hold d and u go full stop but when u release it u get lot of speed 23:21 <+bridge_> [ddnet] Even in new maps 23:21 <+bridge_> [ddnet] yes 23:21 <+bridge_> [ddnet] that's actually not speeder's bug, but a speed bug 😄 23:22 <+bridge_> [ddnet] this trick is used lot more 23:22 <+bridge_> [ddnet] you can reach the same effect with rockets, and a little bit of patience 23:22 <+bridge_> [ddnet] this speed bug is also doable with a long way with rocket or with shotgunrun 23:22 <+bridge_> [ddnet] not sure 23:22 <+bridge_> [ddnet] don't know if u know what im talking about 23:22 <+bridge_> [ddnet] yea 23:22 <+bridge_> [ddnet] I did it on race servers long ago 23:22 <+bridge_> [ddnet] yes 23:22 <+bridge_> [ddnet] and good night 😄 23:22 <+bridge_> [ddnet] there is a shotgun bug where u shoot another tee and then jump 23:22 <+bridge_> [ddnet] Good night, I'm off too 23:23 <+bridge_> [ddnet] gn 23:23 <+bridge_> [ddnet] Yes this 23:23 <+bridge_> [ddnet] i hope heinrich dreams about how evil his fix is and fix The fix tomorrow :GWqlabsFeelsGoodMan: 23:23 <+bridge_> [ddnet] i hope heinrich dreams about how evil his fix is and fix The fix tomorrow :feelsgoodman: 23:40 <+bridge_> [ddnet] @heinrich5991 add a prediction for laser walls, this weird bubbling is not cool 23:50 <+bridge_> [ddnet] ive read some of the messages here and @heinrich5991 im also not a big fan of the new behaivour. Its like you dont like the teleport gun. But this right here breaks maps, as @Wombat told many times.