00:39 < [pieLover]> also to add to heinrich's point: IRC servers. they haven't gotten hardly any new features for a very long time.
00:39 < [pieLover]> longer than I've been alive, most likely
00:43 < Ac1dBeef> [pieLover]: i didn't talk about features I talked about maintanance of code base. It is bugfixes, following updates of libraries, refactoring etc
00:43 < Ac1dBeef> even if software doesn't change a lot, the world does, so code have to follow or die
00:43 < [pieLover]> those can be done by people other than deen, in theory
00:44 < Ac1dBeef> in theory I am the god
00:44 < Ac1dBeef> for code maintanance a maintainer is required.
00:44 < Ac1dBeef> who is responsible for it.
00:46 < Ac1dBeef> this is the way, how it is in long runneing opensource projects without manu new features: bash, coreutils, less, vi and other linux base parts.
00:46 < Ac1dBeef> *how it is done in long running
00:52 < eeeee> Ac1dBeef: ddnet was first and foremost - a network (hence the name). not a network of computers but a network of people: admins, hosters, mappers, testers and players with deen in it's core. the customized source code of the "ddnet" mod is only a byproduct and has no importance on it's own, that's why nobody is concerned about it except you.
00:55 < laxa> that's right
00:55 < laxa> can't compare tools to game
00:56 < Ac1dBeef> eeeee: of course multiplayer game has almost no value without community, but community without game won't last long too.
00:56 < laxa> refacto of code ? Who cares, no going to change the performance at all anyway
00:56 < Ac1dBeef> laxa: are you really a software dev? refactoring is not about performance.
00:57 < ochristi> laxa I think "no problem to keep it running" was the answer to your "will you give forum database to someone"
00:57 <@heinrich5991> Ac1dBeef: could you please stop telling people that they don't know what they're doing?
00:57 < laxa> it's not fucking needed to make the game stay alive
00:57 < laxa> Ac1dBeef: you come here with your apparently commercial mind, you seem so made by the society of today
00:57 < laxa> no one really think like you apparently
00:57 < laxa> ddnet has been the best development on teeworlds for the last 2 years
00:58 < laxa> the game was fine before without it, and will be fine with less developments
00:58 < laxa> people give their time if they have it, no need to search someone new to dev
00:59 < laxa> there is NO REAL NEED to have active developments on ddnet
00:59 < eeeee> yeah. some people are probably still playing 0.5
00:59 < laxa> if we have, ofc it's better
00:59 < Ac1dBeef> ok, if you say so
00:59 < laxa> indeed eeeee
00:59 < laxa> cause their mod was never updated
01:00 < laxa> a game != commercial app / website or whatever
01:00 < laxa> and believe me, I am working professionally on silverlight 4
01:00 < laxa> so I know the blablabla about those outdated technologies
01:01 < eeeee> if teeworlds was commercial it would be easier to host. but it's clearly never going to be so it needs a different model
01:01 < Ac1dBeef> code is code. it's life cycle is unrelated if someone buys it or takes for free.
01:02 < Ac1dBeef> so called "commerial" way to think is also used in managing opensource projects, which i told about: bash, coreutils etc
01:03 < Ac1dBeef> because it is not actually "commercial"
01:03 < laxa> you think it is
01:03 < laxa> but it's not
01:03 < laxa> if people maintining get bored
01:03 < Ac1dBeef> it's about making things done :)
01:03 < laxa> who says someone is going to do their 'job' ?
01:03 < Ac1dBeef> if people maintaining it are getting bored, they give project someone else, who is capable.
01:03 < laxa> you don't give project
01:04 < laxa> you fork them
01:08 < Ac1dBeef> laxa: projects are forked if community conflicts with maintainer. If maintainer want's to quit he ususally passes project to another person.
01:08 < Ac1dBeef> e.g. teeworlds :)
01:08 < ochristi> well if I just had like 60 hours a day...
01:09 < laxa> you don't recruit for opensources project
01:09 < laxa> that is never going to work
01:09 < laxa> either people are interested on their own and participate
01:09 < laxa> either they are not
01:09 < laxa> that's how it worked so far
01:10 < Ac1dBeef> Since August 29, 2012, the creator and developer, Magnus Auvinen made development and forum moderation public to a community of selected volunteers.
01:10 < Ac1dBeef> but it works
01:13 <@heinrich5991> kinda. there were long periods of inactivity
01:13 < Ac1dBeef> usually there are some active commiters around opensource project, in that case they take over control from maintainer. if there are not any, maintainer gives control to those, who wants to continue hs work (e.g. uBlock project). if maintainer just abandons code and one, who wants to continue development, cannot caontact with maintainer, then project is usually forked.
01:14 <@heinrich5991> Ac1dBeef: except in teeworlds, where people wait for the maintainer to come back
01:14 <@heinrich5991> (talking about vanilla)
01:17 < Ac1dBeef> well, I was talking about cases, when someone takes project over :) of cource there are lots of examples where project just left abandoned and slowly dies (e.g. GKrellm, which is in such state nowadays, that it's hard even to build it).
01:17 < Ac1dBeef> bult looks like this is not the teeworld's case, because peple continue to develop game.
01:18 <@heinrich5991> teeworlds' just happens to survive it has enough of a player base
01:19 <@heinrich5991> Ac1dBeef: the latest official release that wasn't pushed out in a hurry due to a security vulnerability was 2.5 years ago
01:19 <@heinrich5991> the one before is 4 years old
01:20 <@heinrich5991> prior to, say, 2009 the teeworlds' development was very active, now it is not
01:20 <@heinrich5991> it's currently reactivating from a long sleep though
01:22 < Ac1dBeef> so you hope, that ddrace's players base is large enough to wait for someone, who will continue development, and propose to pray, that this "someone" will eventually appear? :)
01:24 <@heinrich5991> that's what happened between ddrace and ddnet :)
01:25 < Ac1dBeef> but nobody can be sure, that miracle will hapen again :)
01:26 <@heinrich5991> yes. let's see. good night
01:26 < Ac1dBeef> except if he is the one, who make miracle happen :)
01:26 < Ac1dBeef> bye
01:37 < ochristi> I could imagine to spread the load between serveral individuals to eliminate this single point of failure, but it appears to me kinda difficult to organize and set up such a system
02:43 < Ac1dBeef> system of servers or system of people? :)
02:54 < eeeee> would be hard to find multiple interested people and keep them motivated in such a hostile community. deen has been putting in a ton of effort and was mostly getting trash on forums and death threats in return
03:00 < Ac1dBeef> eeeee: in game most people are friendly :(
03:20 < eeeee> i remember back when greyfox was maintaining ddrace some kids were following him around ddrace servers and votekicking him for the lulz
03:20 < eeeee> that was what made him finally quit
04:34 < [pieLover]> that seems to be a silly reason to quit
04:34 < [pieLover]> imo
11:43 < laxa> I gotta agree with Greyfox, I would be pissed if that would be happenning to me....
11:43 < laxa> Anyway, he was bored of maintaning ddrace at that time iirc
13:39 < hannibal> deen: 
15:10 < B0gdanutzu> hi
15:11 < B0gdanutzu> a link with tournament created by dmtee ?
15:11 < B0gdanutzu> at football
15:11 < B0gdanutzu> ?
16:59 <@EastByte> multiple attacks on GER but GER2 seems to be not touched